[News] RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS

[hegel]

"I really think the removal of the LARGE amount of deadly foam vs the VERY small amount of duct tape's glue was a far better trade in risks."

deadly foam sounds like the premise of a new Stephen King novel.

We don't really know if it's deadly. And without tests, we don't know if duct tape glue is an improvement. this is all just top of the head thinking. I hope members pause and get more information before acting.

I'll show my age and mention the movie comedy The Russians Are Coming, the Russians aRe Coming. A small New England community convinces itself that it's being invaded by Russians. They are not.

p.s. I'm not saying all of this is inconsequential; far from it. If I had a PR machine I'd be very cautious and concerned and upset.

[WakeUpTime]

Which I think will be a mix of three actions: replacement with the New DS II for those that have a say 3 to 5 year or newer machines.

Replacement of the housings with either no foam or so called safe foam, I pray we will be able to chose...

And lastly denial of any action for older machines or of self bought out side the normal supply lines, as in used etc and not handled by any DMEs.

Regarding the possibility of a replacement with a new DreamStation 2 for purchases in the past 3-5 years, that'll be interesting to see if they do that.  

I'm reminded that Philips says it's "recommended" to replace a machine after 5 years, rather than a "requirement" or "expiration".  I would think that DreamStation 1 users who owned their machines for 5 years + 1 day would certainly have a valid argument to get equal treatment.  

It wouldn't be easy to track everyone's original ownership date, or even their actual date of 1st use of the Philips recalled system.  That's a lot of paperwork tracking and the Philips original device registration (if there is such a thing) is surely not accurate, as there are many different quality variations amongst the DMEs.  At best, Philips will may know the "date of manufacture" and the "date of delivery" to a DME.  The DME could have had the device in storage for years.

Regarding Philips offering a no-foam vs new-foam replacement choice to device users, I can't see them offering that at all.

Regarding users who purchased new (or used, or refurbished) systems from non-authorized channels or from DMEs that don't exist anymore, that's going to be a huge challenge for Philips, in my opinion.  I can't see them putting a really hard line on that.  If someone has an airbag safety recall on a Toyota, it won't matter where or how they purchased that Toyota.  Safety is safety.  I'm very much wondering though if they're going to force this category of recall-device owner/user to obtain their replacement device NOW through a traditional DME.  If so, that DME won't have any relationship or setup information for that user.  They might want to be paid for that replacement, machine setup, consultation, delivery, training, etc. etc.  

Philips had a rather large inventory return of NEW DreamStation 1 systems from their authorized DME network.  They say they're already replacing the foam in those devices.  That will give them a quick replacement inventory for existing DS1 system users.  The process will just continue once the DS1 users return their used DS1 systems for foam replacements.

How they're going to handle users of older, and very old, recalled systems, will be very interesting.  Those systems may be 2, 5 or 15 years old.  They might be backup systems for some users, or still active systems with other users.  

In the mean time (correct me if I'm wrong) Philips states that they are still awaiting for "regulatory approval" on the replacement foam use in their pre-DS2 devices.  It really seems that this, along with the complexities stated above, is going to drag on for many weeks/months.


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[JJJ]

Now I cannot prove this BUT Duct Tape is called DUCT TAPE as it is used in repairing and closing and sealing heating and A/C DUCTS.

Duct tape, per se, hasn't been used as hvac duct sealant by reputable companies in years.  It has been known to break down and disintegrate, thus leading to leaks.  Foil tape has been the preferred choice (speaking as a retired west coast house builder).  Some duct tapes even advertise it as for holding for temporary repairs.  I would hate to breath in disintegrating duct tape --  but imo, by the time that happens, the machine will probably be broken down, or it's owner passed away by then.

<Off topic>
That's partly right, but not 100% accurate. Duct tape was designed for the US military during World War II as a tape for repairing tents, hence the need for good adhesion and fabric strength. It was originally never conceived of as means of fastening ducts, but that eventually evolved, as humans are always figuring out new uses for things. The interesting thing is that it was originally called 'duck tape' (and there is a manufacturer today marketing a version under that brand name). Of course, due to the bizarre phonology of English, coupled with its use for fastening ducts, 'duck tape' quickly turned into 'duct tape,' and that is how most people now refer to it now. 

Personally, I don't give a hoot what people call it. I still have some, and once in a while I find a use for it. But a word of caution - never use it on a computer. Computers hate it, and your computer will get even with you.

[racprops]

"Duct tape, per se, hasn't been used as hvac duct sealant by reputable companies in years. It has been known to break down and disintegrate, thus leading to leaks. Foil tape has been the preferred choice (speaking as a retired west coast house builder). Some duct tapes even advertise it as for holding for temporary repairs. I would hate to breath in disintegrating duct tape -- but imo, by the time that happens, the machine will probably be broken down, or it's owner passed away by then. "

Specially in attic and out door use as I am very well aware, BUT this is indoor use and duct tape which I use a lot lasts very well.

"deadly foam sounds like the premise of a new Stephen King novel.

We don't really know if it's deadly. And without tests, we don't know if duct tape glue is an improvement. this is all just top of the head thinking. I hope members pause and get more information before acting. "

I think at worst I have 5 to 6 inches of tiny thin lines of exposure to any tape and there is NO air flow though the tape only what sweeps pass it, VS 1 to 1 1/2 wide by some 6 + inches X inch thick black foam...a lot more exposure of a lot more area of it to the air flow.

They have reported serious health problems related to the foam and perhaps cancer...I for one do not want to a Ginny Pig to find out.

Those reports are bad enough to have PHILLIPS SAY: DO NOT USE THESE MACHINES....

I learned long ago to NOT drink water from a watering hole with bones all around it.

I see bones.

Rich

---

Thanks JJJ that is very interesting facts on Duct/duck tape.

Rich

[HockeyGoon]

Personally, I don't give a hoot what people call it. I still have some, and once in a while I find a use for it. But a word of caution - never use it on a computer. Computers hate it, and your computer will get even with you.

Probably not the best idea to use on a breathing machine, to patch up holes, either.  My gut feeling is that duct tape and cutting up the same machine would void any warranty.

Thanks for the history lesson!  Duck tape is good stuff.  Just not a good choice for medical devices. 

[racprops]

WakeUpTime that is about how I see it.

I figure I am SOL on getting a brand new ASV machine...

And I for one will not want ANY foam in any machine...no way no how...never again.

So if they give me a machine with foam in it I will take it out, or as i am hardly likely to get anything other than a APAP or at best a BiPAP Machine I will just resell it/them to help pay for a ASV Machine.

IF anyone will be willing to even BUY a Phillips machine after all of this.

I kind of plan on buying a few second hand as fire sales, as I still prefer them and fear a lack of repair/rebuilding supplies.

Not sure if they will support repairs on older DS I systems. Perhaps (I hope) insist on they get replacement housing or have a certified one all ready installed.

Rich

[btreger]

In an earlier thread, I quoted some potential health effects of using distilled water in our CPAP machines. I also stated that I use distilled water, and will continue to do so. That was several days ago, but I wanted to do some more follow-up on it, so today I did.

This what I found;

    Distilled water is clean, pure, and has had all impurities removed. The potential of a health problem, although small comes from the plastic bottles it is sold in. Bisphenol A, or BPA for short. The FDA asked makers of baby bottles, sippy cups, and infant formula cans to stop using the chemical. So it's unlikely you have any baby items with BPA anymore.

Makers of many other water bottles and containers have voluntarily stopped using BPA as well. So while you may have had many products containing the chemical in your house a few decades ago, it's much less likely now. 

So, if this is a concern of yours, try to buy your distilled water in BPA-free bottles.

[btreger]

A number of you have asked how will Phillips respond.

This is a question and answer from their website.

"How will Phillips address this issue? Are affected devices being replaced and/or repaired? Are customers entitled to a warranty replacement, repair, service, or other mitigations"? 

We are treating this matter with the highest possible seriousness, and are working to address this issue as efficiently and thoroughly as possible.
 
As a result of extensive ongoing analysis, on June 14, 2021, the company issued a recall notification for specific affected Continuous Positive Airway Pressure (CPAP), Bi-Level Positive Airway Pressure (BiLevel PAP) devices, and Mechanical Ventilators.
 
The recall notification (U.S. only) / field safety notice (International Markets) informs customers and users of potential impacts on patient health and clinical use related to this issue. Possible health risks include exposure to degraded sound abatement foam, for example, caused by unapproved cleaning methods such as ozone, and exposure to chemical emissions from the foam material.
 
Philips is notifying customers and users of affected devices that the company will replace the current sound abatement foam with a new material that is not affected by this issue. Affected devices currently will be either replaced with a new or refurbished unit that incorporates the new material, or repaired to replace the sound abatement foam in customer units. The new material will also replace the current sound abatement foam in future products.
 
Philips is recommending that customers and patients halt the use of ozone-related cleaning products, and adhere to their device Instructions for Use for approved cleaning methods.
 
Additionally, Philips is reminding customers and patients to review the age of their BiLevel PAP and CPAP devices, as they are typically recommended to be replaced after five years of use.
 
The company has dedicated significant resources to address this issue, and has developed a comprehensive plan for this correction, and has already begun this process. This effort includes wide-scale, global ramping up of manufacturing, repair, services, supply chain, and other functions to support the correction.
 
Philips deeply regrets the inconveniences caused by this issue, and we are dedicating significant time and resources to give affected patients and customers the service they expect and deserve as we resolve this matter as our top priority.
 

[racprops]

In an earlier thread, I quoted some potential health effects of using distilled water in our CPAP machines. I also stated that I use distilled water, and will continue to do so. That was several days ago, but I wanted to do some more follow-up on it, so today I did.

This what I found;

    Distilled water is clean, pure, and has had all impurities removed. The potential of a health problem, although small comes from the plastic bottles it is sold in. Bisphenol A, or BPA for short. The FDA asked makers of baby bottles, sippy cups, and infant formula cans to stop using the chemical. So it's unlikely you have any baby items with BPA anymore.

Makers of many other water bottles and containers have voluntarily stopped using BPA as well. So while you may have had many products containing the chemical in your house a few decades ago, it's much less likely now. 

So, if this is a concern of yours, try to buy your distilled water in BPA-free bottles.

We were concerned over this so my wife got a water distiller and a bunch of glass bottles to howl the frest still hot water in.

Rich

[Crimson Nape]

Let's get this thread back on topic, please. You can start a new thread for water and duct tape.