[News] RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS

[Lazer1234]

In Sweden, patients receive the recommendation from healthcare to continue treatment with Philips machines because the benefit outweighs the risk. 

[racprops]

Advice For Philips:

Stop the recall, and instead offer all affected users a 65% discount on the newest version of their existing machines. with the assurance and proof that you are now using a safe product for noise suppression.

This would help to restore some of your now-disgraced reputations.

This would reduce the number of units you would need to send for refurbishment. Most people don't trust that process.

This would allow you to start up the production line on your new products, and reduce the backup of new products because the vast majority of your customers are totally avoiding you. 


  

That will not work: I for one will never pay RETAIL so even a 65% discount will not work, and I do not want their new Dreamstation II with its Big Bother control system.

For me, the ONLY fix is to replace those housings with a choice of new "SAFE" Foam or NO FOAM housings. (I want the no foam.

As for people made sick by them...let the courts work that out and heaven help them if I get sick because of them.

Rich

[racprops]

Brief thoughts on the way the COURT CASES will play out and related miscellaneous matters:

1. Phillips will try to get as many CPAP users as possible to give up their right to sue in the future by enticing them to accept a class action settlement in the near term. 
   
2. If a CPAP user doesn’t have an injury today, they can’t sue today. Only people with provable injuries can be compensated. If there are injuries, it seems like the bulk of them might happen well into the future. Unless there are CAT scans of foam in lungs today, and unless the lungs are having trouble breathing today, there’s not much of a case, even if the fear factor is large and long term consequences are unknown. 
   
3. In some states, but not in all states, the ozone issue will come into play. If Phillips tells users beforehand that ozone will negatively affect how the device operates, and will void the warranty, and some users nevertheless apply ozone to the machine, courts in some states will take the position that the ozone users contributed to their own injury and will not be entitled to compensation. It will not matter that CPAP users didn’t understand there was a foam part that could disintegrate with ozone, etc. Again this will apply to some but not all states. Many states will take a middle ground and reduce the award a plaintiff gets, other states will say a plaintiff is entitled to a full award. 
   
4. Phillips will try a few balloon cases to see how juries react to the facts. I can imagine people who try to sue will be divided up into groups. The first group will be people who have a history of smoking and who do not have any evidence of particles in their lungs. The second group will be people who don’t smoke and who do have particles in their lungs. The third group will be ozone users who have particles in their lungs. And so on and so forth, into x amount of groups that the Phillips lawyers are curious about. Plaintiffs who try to sue will have varying degrees of success and varying payouts depending on their situation. Phillips will know exactly where all people stand within a few months of the first few cases.
   
5. Phillips has already stated that it does not see this as being any sort of risk to its business or to its stock price. The long term costs will be negligible as its other business will continue to grow and in the short term it will be a write-off to cover  reputational and machine replacement costs. They also are firm in their stance that this is an issue that only affects a very small number of CPAP users. This is a PR matter for them. 
   
6. Doctors will have a lot more information in the coming months as for what to look for than they do today. As has been mentioned many times before, it will be a long time before anyone will really know how worried anyone should be.
   

This is Ford Gate all over again: Ford did the same thing, it really harmed them when it was revealed in an inner office memo that they decided to take the projected losses for the lawsuits VS the cost of fixing the cars.

Sorry, this really needs to be quoted otherwise my reply might not make sense.

[DaveL]

The way covid went down is that the Chinese thought ventilators were the right tool to deal with severe covid, and their colonies in Italy and Iran got the virus spread to them first, so the first thing that happened in the early scrambling days is that first China, Italy and Iran and then the rest of the world instantly ran out of ventilators. Then within a couple of months American doctors realized that ventilators were like nuclear weapons sowing utter destruction, and that cpaps (specifically bipaps) were a much better tool. Which then caused a shortage of bipaps and ASVs.

Some enterprising hackers figured out that -- at least for the ResMed machines -- all of the hardware necessary to run all the way up through the most sophisticated ASV is all there in every ResMed Airsense10 -- even in the single pressure CPAP.

From an engineering perspective, the least costly way to produce these machines is to have identical hardware. If there is some piece of the hardware that the ASV needs that the CPAP doesn't, but that piece of hardware costs four cents, then it would be insane to spend $20 million retooling your assembly line to leave out a 4-cent part. The hackers proving that the ASV software would run on a CPAP is strong evidence that if there is anything hardware-wise that the ASV needs special, then it is cheap enough that it doesn't make sense to leave it out on the non-ASV machines.

Thank you. I'm grateful that you posted this. I've learned a lot.

[davepap]

No response whatsoever from Philips, following a simple confirmation number.

I also had no response from Philips. I did receive an email from one of the law offices that is looking into a class action law suit. It was their third email to me. Good customer service. They mentioned all the specific steps they are taking. If only Philips did that. I also received an email from an oral appliance company saying they have a special program to help affected Philips customers. Everyone is helping except Philips.

[racprops]

WHAT??? "Some enterprising hackers figured out that -- at least for the ResMed machines -- all of the hardware necessary to run all the way up through the most sophisticated ASV is all there in every ResMed Airsense10 -- even in the single pressure CPAP.

From an engineering perspective, the least costly way to produce these machines is to have identical hardware. If there is some piece of the hardware that the ASV needs that the CPAP doesn't, but that piece of hardware costs four cents, then it would be insane to spend $20 million retooling your assembly line to leave out a 4-cent part. The hackers proving that the ASV software would run on a CPAP is strong evidence that if there is anything hardware-wise that the ASV needs special, then it is cheap enough that it doesn't make sense to leave it out on the non-ASV machines."

Can anyone show me where these hackers are I need an ASV, I have a BiPap ResMed 10 so other than replacing the Mainboard I am stuck.

FTI I have compared the Dreamstation's BiPAP and ASV Main Boards and there are a few more parts on the ASV board than the BiPAP board.

Rich

ASV board on left BiPAP on right, note red lines pointing to chips on one not the other.

[attachment=33322]

[buddy0329]

I also had no response from Philips. I did receive an email from one of the law offices that is looking into a class action law suit. It was their third email to me. Good customer service. They mentioned all the specific steps they are taking. If only Philips did that. I also received an email from an oral appliance company saying they have a special program to help affected Philips customers. Everyone is helping except Philips.

How are law offices getting your information?

[racprops]

ALSO Check this video on the New White Foam in the New DreamstationII

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFxtA3y1ucQ The foam is shown at 7.27 minutes in.

OMG.

Rich

[WakeUpTime]

... just curious where you found it.  It was obvious that there would be some [Philips Executive] sacrifices made to those affected. The two senior officials you mentioned, I am sure had to sign a full folder of legal, non-disclosure documents. With the knowledge that they would be well taken care of if they kept a low profile and spoke to no one.   

It's rare when high profile executives depart like that, especially with large European companies where they usually stay until retirement.  What's even more of a possible indication as to their connection to the Philips recall, is that they will remain on the company payroll in a limited role in a part-time or consulting capacity - therefore keeping their connection to Philips but making them unavailable for media interviews.  And they also can't leave to work for a competitor.  It's a perfect corporate protection system.

A good source of company news comes from the Philips CEO during any financial report that he gives to investors.  Most of the news that I quoted came from "Philips 2021 Quarter Results", where the CEO spoke to large global investment companies and the financial media.  I'll have to go through previous quarters to look for more clues regarding any connections to the coming recall.

Another quote I used from Philips came from Philips Public Relations department when they described what the Philips was going to say at the 2021 World Economic Forum in Davos.

This is Ford Gate all over again: Ford did the same thing, it really harmed them when it was revealed in an inner office memo that they decided to take the projected losses for the lawsuits VS the cost of fixing the cars.

That's a good comparison - also from a large global corporation.

Philips could have planned and responded quickly in the best interests of affected users.  Instead, as large corporations do, they're responding in the "best interests of company stock holders".  CEOs can only be fired by stock holder votes, I think.

[racprops]

"The DS2 is an Auto Cpap, not an ASV. "

I noticed that as well, as I have already proven I NEED an ASV machine by trying two BiPAP machines a Phillips and a Nice new Iar Curve 10S BiPAP, and both allowed me to get over 5 AHIs per night where my using an ASV again by both makers show under 1.0 and ofter under 0.50

So ASV users may have to wait until next year for our machines.

Rich