RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
OZONE
This issue has been bugging me for several days now, so I decided to do a little research.
EPA
Manufacturers and vendors of ozone devices often use misleading terms to describe ozone. Terms such as "energized oxygen" or "pure air" suggest that ozone is a healthy kind of oxygen. Ozone is a toxic gas with vastly different chemical and toxicological properties from oxygen. Several federal agencies have established health standards or recommendations to limit human exposure to ozone.
FDA
The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) requires the ozone output of indoor medical devices to be no more than 0.05 ppm. The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) requires that workers not be exposed to an average concentration of more than 0.10 ppm for 8 hours.
SoClean
The SoClean produces the activated oxygen on its own. Regular oxygen from the air is taken in and converted to activated oxygen, O3, for the sanitizing/cleaning process.
Does SoClean cause damage?
With the SoClean 2, the Ozone actually enters your CPAP machine and damages may occur.
You could spend hours doing research on ozone. Both Resmed and Philips have put out many news releases on using the Soclean machine. From causing damage to their product to voiding warranties. Remember the Philips product poses a health risk the second you open the box before you plug it in.
The question's that I am left with after all this is how come the SoClean machine keeps chugging away, day after day with apparent no reported mechanical problems after pumping out potentially dangerous amounts of ozone?
Are the CPAP manufacturers using SoClean as a misdirection that could be used for future legal proceedings?
Just saying
RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
Just my personal opinion but I would never run Ozone through my actual machine, and that’s what my sleep tech told me when he set me up, made sense. However I do use a Respify generator in the bag on my tubing and mask. After the cycle, I take both out and wash them with hot water and hang them up, I have two sets of tubes and masks so the extra clean tubing and mask hang for two or three weeks before I use them. I’ll continue to use Ozone in this way, not worried about it. My PhD chemist brother agrees with this procedure.
Glen in Ft Lauderdale
RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
(07-02-2021, 09:00 AM)btreger Wrote: The question's that I am left with after all this is how come the SoClean machine keeps chugging away, day after day with apparent no reported mechanical problems after pumping out potentially dangerous amounts of ozone?
Because different materials have different compatibilities with Ozone. Some matrial is very reative to Ozone, others less and some none.
The creators of Ozone devices would build them using materials that don't react with Ozone.
If you do a Google Search with Ozone compatible, you will find thousands of charts listing materials and their respective Ozone compatibility rating.
RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
(07-02-2021, 09:12 AM)Dog Slobber Wrote: Because different materials have different compatibilities with Ozone. Some matrial is very reative to Ozone, others less and some none.
The creators of Ozone devices would build them using materials that don't react with Ozone.
If you do a Google Search with Ozone compatible, you will find thousands of charts listing materials and their respective Ozone compatibility rating.
With that being said, you are left asking yourself why the manufactures of CPAP machines would not be using those materials to better protect their customers? They have access to the same information and a great deal more scientific analysis. They could of, should have, but didn't.
Since I am already here, I will off my own opinion, cost.
07-02-2021, 12:25 PM
(This post was last modified: 07-02-2021, 01:20 PM by WakeUpTime.)
RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
SoClean would seem to advance the natural "aging" of internal components, that were never meant to be "cleaned", especially by more advanced cleaning solutions.
Regardless, the problematic foam used in Philips recalled machines deteriorates anyway, even if people did not use SoClean. It just happened over time, sped up by natural use factors such as humidity, temperature, device age, device model, amount of usage, etc. - perhaps even the IPAP pressure.
SoClean-use helped to shine a big spotlight on the core issue of Philips' foam composition (strength, and cancer-causing chemicals, potential off-gassing, etc.). Philips has already stated that SoClean-use was not the only determining factor for the recall - or Philips would have only recalled SoClean-used devices.
RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
(07-02-2021, 12:16 PM)btreger Wrote: With that being said, you are left asking yourself why the manufactures of CPAP machines would not be using those materials to better protect their customers? They have access to the same information and a great deal more scientific analysis. They could of, should have, but didn't.
Since I am already here, I will off my own opinion, cost.
No, they should not have.
- CPAP manufacturers have cleaning instructions.
- Many devices predate Ozone
- Disinfecting is unnecessary
- Manufacturers can not anticipate what will might possibly be used to clean their devices
- Ozone material incompatibility is well known
Damage from Ozone lands squarely on the shoulders of Ozone disinfecting device manufacturers, who marketed an unnecessary product, without concern that it could damage devices and without warning those who purchased them.
For the same reason it is not TV manufacturers responsibility to ensure that their panels aren't damaged by Windex, it is not the manufacturer's responsibility to ensure their products are ozone proof.
RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
(07-02-2021, 01:32 PM)Dog Slobber Wrote: No, they should not have.
- CPAP manufacturers have cleaning instructions.
- Many devices predate Ozone
- Disinfecting is unnecessary
- Manufacturers can not anticipate what will might possibly be used to clean their devices
- Ozone material incompatibility is well known
Damage from Ozone lands squarely on the shoulders of Ozone disinfecting device manufacturers, who marketed an unnecessary product, without concern that it could damage devices and without warning those who purchased them.
For the same reason it is not TV manufacturers responsibility to ensure that their panels aren't damaged by Windex, it is not the manufacturer's responsibility to ensure their products are ozone proof.
Ok, does that also mean that Philips is not responsible for the foam they decided to use. The one they had no choice but to issue a recall for. That everyone knew the dangers of including Philips. Or maybe you think it was our fault for using their machines.
07-02-2021, 02:33 PM
(This post was last modified: 07-02-2021, 02:48 PM by Dog Slobber.)
RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
(07-02-2021, 02:04 PM)btreger Wrote: Ok, does that also mean that Philips is not responsible for the foam they decided to use. The one they had no choice but to issue a recall for. That everyone knew the dangers of including Philips. Or maybe you think it was our fault for using their machines.
No, I didn't say or even suggest that philips isn't responsible for their recall.
They made it clear in their recall notice that there are reasons that have nothing to do with ozone. Specifically, high heat and humidity. Their devices are also being recalled because there are trace amounts of VOC measured above safe levels.
Why would you suggest that " I think it was your fault for using their machines"? I said nothing that could be interpreted, by a reasonable person, as suggesting anything of the sort.
If you have to support your position by attributing things to me, that I didn't say or even imply, and then attacking them, your position really isn't that strong.
RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
(07-02-2021, 02:04 PM)btreger Wrote: Ok, does that also mean that Philips is not responsible for the foam they decided to use. The one they had no choice but to issue a recall for. That everyone knew the dangers of including Philips. Or maybe you think it was our fault for using their machines.
Doing some more research on this issue;
The SoClean product came to the marketplace in February 2012. That gave CPAP manufacturers 9 years to upgrade their equipment to make them ozone tolerant if they really cared about us users. They had many options available but chose to do nothing. Only now are they raising concerns that the ozone could potentially cause damage to their machines.
RE: RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS
(07-02-2021, 02:45 PM)btreger Wrote: Doing some more research on this issue;
The SoClean product came to the marketplace in February 2012. That gave CPAP manufacturers 9 years to upgrade their equipment to make them ozone tolerant if they really cared about us users. They had many options available but chose to do nothing. Only now are they raising concerns that the ozone could potentially cause damage to their machines.
I think it is time to get off this topic, we are going nowhere. To everyone on this thread, I will attempt to get back on course starting now.
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