[News] RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS

[btreger]

- we don't know what the long-term impact will be on our health for the years that we've been using and inhaling defective foam particles, known to be cancer-causing (I've been using Philips recalled systems for 7 years) -- so I would appreciate a "monetary fund" for recalled device users who might LATER develop medical issues likely tied to their ingestion of those defective foam particles

Your Health

I have been thinking about this since June 14t but was hesitant to post it. I am not a medical professional so this me trying to connect the dots.

Roughly 600,000 people have died in the US currently from COVID. I have often wondered of the people who have died, how many had Sleep Apnea. That was always in the back of my mind. Now, knowing what we do about the Philips machines and the many potential sides effects and the number of sick people who have already lodged formal complaints. It is potentially possible that literally thousands of people have died that were using the now recalled Phillips machines. No one except Philips knew of these health risks and I bet they were very worried this information would come out much earlier. The people using their machine's immune systems must have been compromised to some extent prior to coming down with COVID. Once they got infected, they literally had no chance to survive because of the damage already done to their immune systems, and the disease would erase all traces of the machine use.

Again, I am just thinking out loud just putting the pieces of a puzzle together. 
I am looking forward to any comments.

I am concerned about this, people are still getting sick and dying.

I intend to have this discussion with my doctor and see what his response might be.
I am also thinking of contacting the CDC and passing this to them. 

Stay well

[WakeUpTime]

Philips has benefited by the very nature of sleep apnea and patients' use of PAP therapy.  This may give Philips a very strong defense against any claims of medical liability as a result of the ingesting foam particles, some of which are known to be cancer-causing.

Philips may legally rebut medical claims with:

- those symptoms (throat irritation, coughing, difficulty breathing, etc.) are often found with those with sleep apnea
- those symptoms are often found in people undergoing PAP therapy
- many PAP users already had existing underlying health issues
- many PAP users have used multiple brand equipment over the years
- some PAP users may be current or previous smokers
- etc. etc. etc.

There are likely some examples of individuals who can directly attribute an illness or ailment to ingesting those foam particles.  But there's also another category that the majority of people will fall into:  ingesting trace amounts of foam particles and which is not yet developed into an ailment.  Philips should not be allowed to escape from the liabilities associated with those future diagnoses.  

That why I'd prefer that a judge/court rule quickly on the primary economic costs that recalled device owners has suffered from - compensation from their defective machine purchase and/or compensation for immediately needing a replacement machine.  There's no disputing those costs and that Philips caused those costs/loses to be realized by end-users, insurance companies, hospitals, etc.

Anything else can be put out into future years.

Lastly, even if I don't get $1.00 from a Philips class-action lawsuit, I would still participate, because ultimately I'll be very satisfied knowing:

(1) Philips neglect was proven (faulty design since 2009, ignoring then delaying disclosure, etc.)
(2) Philips has paid a penalty for their neglect (earnings, stock price, etc.), likely to cause a corporate cleansing
(3) There's a permanent record of Philips neglect, which will motivate them and other companies to improve
(4) Other Philips (not yet known or proven) neglect or misdeeds have been discovered in the process

Thank goodness we have that ability to force these outcomes in this country.  There may be some PAP users who have suffered considerably because of this.  Some may not have a strong voice, or perhaps, sadly, they aren't around anymore.  I want to help them too.  I'd be ecstatic if a government agency were to significantly assist recalled device owners.  

If lawyers, working on contingency, are the only resource available to defend the rights of defective-device PAP users, then I'll be very grateful for any additional results that they are able to achieve from Philips for end-users.

Philips corporate neglect, in the name of protecting Philips finances, especially when targeted towards less healthy individuals,  transcends my own personal needs.  That's my motivation.

[Glen e]

Sometimes I ‘m amazed at the comments that I read here, and how detached they are from reality and the way big business works. First of all this is a multinational corporation so I doubt anything will happen to them as they’re just as simply no court of legality that will assess a earth shaking penalty against them. This will go down just like oil spills in the Arctic, union carbide in India as corporate malfeasance but probably generate less publicity/fine because no one has actually died from their cataclysmic event. Yes there will be many class action suits, but like said above, that will pay all the people that were wrong $10 or so and it will be buried as time passes.

Getting the foam out of the machine you are on, or getting a new machine is paramount right now. The doctors have nothing to say, the DME’s have nothing to say, and certainly philips are not gonna say a word because they are just discovering what a mess they are in but they are protected being a multinational, with a battalion of lawyers. I think it’s more important for everybody to take as much action as they can and get a new machine and move on with your life, there’s plenty of time to protest and stamp your feet later. As I said in a post above, as soon as my brother saw that his dream station was affected, he threw the sucker out, (put it on a shelf), and found a resmed three days later online at increased suggested retail, but still manageable. So now just instead of sitting and waiting for people who will do nothing, he sleeping soundly.

I’m sure this is not a popular opinion but it’s mine…

[Phaleronic]

I forgot to mention -- the new DME loaded the existing pressures for me on the AirSense, which were working well with the DreamStation.  However, the pressures on the AirSense were NOT ENOUGH.  I had to manually increase the pressures (from 10-12 on the Dreamstation) to (11.6-13.6) on the AirSense because the AirSense for some reason does not blow as much air.  This is after making sure the mask type and hose type were set properly.  

I really do hope that Philips compensates me for the out of pocket ResMed, but in all honesty, I don't care.  If they want to fix my old DreamStation, I'll be happy to keep it around as a backup, but I don't plan to continue using it unless the ResMed needs to go in for service or something.  I'll be perfectly fine to continue using the new ResMed and leave Philips behind.  For that matter, I don't plan to buy any Philips dental products, or even Philips light bulbs anymore.

So, I could not get another auto-bipap to replace my dreamstation auto-bipap, only an airsense 10 for her.  I've set it on epr 3 and have bumped the pressures as I cannot get decent sleep with the machine.  I had an old dreamstation apap years ago but I don't remember the settings.  I have read that with epr 3 on the a10 it sort of functions like a standard bipap..

[hegel]

There are auto recalls all the time. A few cars are immediately affected; tens of thousands are not. But the possibility of further accidents remain and so all are recalled and fixed.

We don't know how extensive the possible damage to foam is--that is, how many machines are actually affected. I see no reason to assume that tens of thousands of people have been poisoned and are at risk of developing cancer at this point. We simply don't know.

[E.W.]

After a long complicated talk with my  Dr.  he sent a order in to Lincare for a new bipap.  
I wonder if Lincare will fill the order with a Resmed or will I be stuck with a new Respironics.

[Crimson Nape]

Why didn't you have him write it for a Resmed?

[cathyf]

I wonder if Lincare will fill the order with a Resmed or will I be stuck with a new Respironics.

Is a DME legally allowed to dispense a machine that's recalled?

[MikeE3]

 Doctor may be able to write it up and submit to Medicare so it will get approved.

I've read that medicare is dragging their feet because PR says they will repair/replace the machine so they won't pay on another one less than 5 years old.

[Guilhermedico]

I've read that medicare is dragging their feet because PR says they will repair/replace the machine so they won't pay on another one less than 5 years old.

Does anyone know if Medicare will cover a rental ResMed device, perhaps on a month-to-month basis, at least until PR repairs and/or replaces our recalled DreamStation devices?