[News] RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS

[btreger]

As for the grumbling about being the ignored little people-- that VA release included

It's those 2,000 devices that have made the VA very very P*ssed. Many big hospital systems are huge customers, and they are very big and very ugly and can squash Philips like a bug.

Interestingly, the RT at my little DME tells me that she hates Respironics and only dispenses their machines when the doctor insists. The specific reason is that "Respironics doesn't listen." That's the kind of thing that kills your business.

I just went to the main VA website and there is no information concerning the recall there. I then called their main number and was told that they were waiting on future guidance from the FDA and Philips.

[WakeUpTime]

But I think there is a big barrier in front of you that most politicians will let affect them, and that is the FDA, and what they have gone on the record with ...

Companies and agencies are made up of individuals; And no one appreciates getting a call from an influential leader's office making inquires to protect the greater well being of their citizens.  No one can simply ignore those calls.  I think making contact with our various representatives is like moving little domino pieces.  Sometimes it's just a "tap" along with a little time.  

Someone ("sleeprn") just made a tap.  There are likely a few more.  Phones will ring.  E-mails will be sent and forwarded.  Leaders like to be known for championing a good cause.  The media, and government officials, need details as to why this important issue is not being resolved in a fair and timely manor, and it's affecting the health and finances of many people, unfairly, through no fault of their own.

Perhaps 60 Minutes will pickup the story, once the seriousness and the magnitude of the situation becomes more realized.  Philips CEO Frans van Houten might not appreciate that request for an interview - yet he couldn't ignore it either.

[btreger]

Companies and agencies are made up of individuals; And no one appreciates getting a call from an influential leader's office making inquires to protect the greater well being of their citizens.  No one can simply ignore those calls.  I think making contact with our various representatives is like moving little domino pieces.  Sometimes it's just a "tap" along with a little time.  

Someone ("sleeprn") just made a tap.  There are likely a few more.  Phones will ring.  E-mails will be sent and forwarded.  Leaders like to be known for championing a good cause.  The media, and government officials, need details as to why this important issue is not being resolved in a fair and timely manor, and it's affecting the health and finances of many people, unfairly, through no fault of their own.

Perhaps 60 Minutes will pickup the story, once the seriousness and the magnitude of the situation becomes more realized.

Like I said I am with you on this. I just wanted to point out the potential barrier, another one to consider is the number of financial contributions that have been made, and the number of lobbyists they have.

With that said if you write something up, you are good at that, I would be the first to sign onto it......

[WakeUpTime]

Just sent a report to 60 Minutes, suggesting they investigate this very important medical industry news event, as it relates to device owners.  I suggested they read these postings to gain some insight into how it's affecting end-users.  Maybe they'll give it a small segment.

[StratCat48]

I called my DME this afternoon to get their spin on the recall and they pretty much only knew what everyone else does from the info Philips had put out. I did however ask a few more questions which may or may not be relevant to the status of Philips CPAP recalled equipment. I asked the DME CSR if a CPAP machine that I've owned for 3 years (out of the warranty period) should fail beyond repairability if Medicare would help pay for a replacement. The CSR stated generally no, but she said as the DME, they are obligated to provide a loaner CPAP until the 5 year lifespan of the original unit has come up. She didn't elaborate whether this obligation to provide a loaner was directed and payed for by Medicare  or not and I didn't pursue it further. Is a loaner CPAP consistent with other DME's when one needs a replacement?

My thought is my Philips recalled CPAP has 'failed' by virtue of the foam and Philips recommendation to discontinue use. There is no present plan for repair or replacement by Philips. Would this justify a loaner or outright replacement that Medicare might pickup part of the tab for?

Also found this which seems to suggest Medicare may pay for a replacement(?) 
Google '11461-Medicares-DMEPOS-Program' to find and download PDF (can't include links in posts yet)

An excerpt from “Your Guide to Medicare’s Durable Medical Equipment Prosthetics, Orthotics, & Supplies (DMEPOS) Competitive Bidding Program”

"What do I need to know if I need to repair and replace

equipment I own?
• If you own medical equipment that's included in the program, you can use
any Medicare-approved supplier (even a non-contract supplier) for repairs or
replacement parts needed to repair your equipment. Before your equipment is
serviced, make sure the supplier is enrolled in Medicare so Medicare can help
pay. A “Medicare-enrolled” supplier means any supplier that can submit claims to
Medicare.
• If you need to replace your medical equipment, you must use a Medicare contract
supplier for Medicare to help pay for the equipment.
• Medicare doesn’t pay for repairs that are covered under a manufacturer’s or
supplier’s warranty. If you need warranty repairs, follow the warranty rules.
• If you’re renting medical equipment, repair costs are included in the rental
payments. The supplier renting you the equipment must fix it at no additional
charge to you."

[sawinglogz]

Philips earned approximately $25 Billion in 2020.
Philips has estimated it's cost to the recall at $600 Million.

Philips is indicating that its total cost of the defective
product recall will be just 2.4% of one year's profit.

Not to diminish the rest of your point, but I believe that's 2.4% of one year's revenue, not profit.

It looks like Philips' operating income (which excludes cash flows such as the earmark for this recall) for 2020 was $1.8 billion, which makes the cost currently allocated to the recall 33% of a year's profits.

Also, this is the number they've currently allocated and communicated to their shareholders: it's high enough to cover a significant amount of the cost and to make any future allocations seem reasonable in comparison, but low enough to keep investors from panicking.

What I find particularly interesting is that Philips bought Respironics for $5B in 2008, and didn't the affected foam start being used shortly thereafter?

[racprops]

"WakeUpTime Wrote:
Philips earned approximately $25 Billion in 2020.
Philips has estimated it's cost to the recall at $600 Million.

Philips is indicating that its total cost of the defective
product recall will be just 2.4% of one year's profit."

OK so it is not even a small dent so get on with it....

Rich

[WakeUpTime]

Not to diminish the rest of your point, but I believe that's 2.4% of one year's revenue, not profit.

Thanks for the correction.  Updated the original post.  I've owned several companies and I still get them mixed up.

What I find particularly interesting is that Philips bought Respironics for $5B in 2008, and didn't the affected foam start being used shortly thereafter?

There might sure be some interesting internal documents on that, from the Philips design department, in addition to the documents that discussed the need to change the foam in the DreamStation 2.  These would be some good "60 Minutes" style questions to ask Philips.  I wish they had their investigative crew from 80s and 90s, along with that extremely high viewership.  It's unfortunate that Philips is based in the Netherlands.  As with VW, we need a more local whistleblower who was privy to some of those documents.  That would be a real game-changer for Philips.  If these are more than just incredible coincidences, we need a hero.

[RayBee]

Hmmmm.....
Let's see.

Mama needs a new Learjet?
Or we can help a few million people that have severe health risks and who we have royally screwed (  Did I really say that?) because we saved 75¢ on a piece of foam? 

Tough decision and one that will obviously take many months to decide. 

I completely understand why folks would not want another Philips product ever again.

If my friend gets to keep her DeathStation CPAP, I'll de-foam it for her and she can keep it as a backup unit. I hope her DME can get her a ResMed. Her appointment is in three weeks. Not sure if there will be any ResMed products left to be had. We'll see when we get there. I've instructed her to push for ResMed with her DME.

[archangle]

maybe Phillips can train DMEs to do this.

They experimented with training DME's do that, and they failed. 

However, they were able to train chimps to repair the machines correctly.

/s 

[Do I really have to tell you I'm being sarcastic?]