[News] RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS

[btreger]

The replacement of the prior foam product with a newer, safer option that does not deteriorate will likely still be a swifter remedy than waiting for new machines to be built.

I guess I have to respond to my own post. I am just so tired of reading newer, safer foam that was put out by Philips when they did the initial recall. Ever since then everyone just repeats the same words.

There has never been a third-party clinical evaluation done to prove that, we still do not even know the scientific name of this new foam.

All this has done so far is leave Philips in control, with no one questioning them on specific health-related details.

Second thought;
 
We have been all looking at the number of recalled devices. We all associate real people with that number, 3-4 million. That number is actually much higher by a factor of x, (unknown). We all had to take a sleep study before we could get a script from our doctor to obtain a machine. If the machine we used in the study was a Philips recalled device you would have to multiply the number of people that used just that one machine over a ten-year period times the number of Philips machines that were in use in all the sleep centers in the US. Then you would have to multiply the total number of patients that potentially had some contact with a health hazard by using those machines.

Just thinking about this gives me a headache.

[Glen e]

I had my annual check up with my pulmonologist for my COPD yesterday, and it went very well, I’m not getting any worse. I really attribute that to using the CPAP machine. We got to talking about the recent situation with Phillips, and he agreed that this thing was not going to be solved anywhere near soon, that would go on for years, and Phillips has really not handled it well. He uses rest med exclusively in his sleep lab for his patients, as he said he felt the algorithm was just better. As he said, the recall involves the government and a multinational corporation, that’s never worked out well and expedient in past situations, like BP, union carbide, and others.We both agreed that the best thing to do is just go find yourself a resmed machine and call it a day ….he was very concerned about some of his patients that were trying to sort it out and save hundreds of dollars by arguing with their DME, pulmonologist, sleep tech, Medicare and all the other people that are involved in this thing screwing it up.

Do yourself a favor, go out to dinner a few less times, pay the inflated money and go get a machine that works so your health is not in jeopardy. Then you can come on here and discuss the finer points of what should happen. But to wait is just crazy, Help is not around the corner. A lot of this hand ringing, filing suits & introspection is doing nobody any immediate good, because Phillips in my opinion is just not listening.

Just my opinion.

[WakeUpTime]

However, if a person registers their product independently of their DME, Philips and the DME will consult to determine which organization will manage the replacement process. If the DME authorizes Philips to replace your equipment, Philips will be in contact with you regarding the timeline and status.

For a sizable group of PAP device owners, they may have purchased their initial device from a traditional DME, but in subsequent users, many users became more device-aware and desired greater control over their systems.  It's probably why there are so many online providers now.

The very nature of the online providers (listed in the supplier index) would suggest they wouldn't be involved in coordinating a recalled PAP replacements, unless they were incented to do so.  Perhaps Philips will offer those DMEs a flat programming fee to handle the setup and training of a new device.  Naturally, Philips should be able to manage foam replacement fixes directly with device users as no programming or re-training is involved.

Like many people are suggesting here, if you're not in the first priority group (DreamStation owners who have their device details in the Philips cloud), you (and me) could be waiting a significant amount of time for a fix or replacement.  If Philips decides to have foam fixes coordinated through a user's DME, that's going to be challenging.

Philips' first group of DreamStation replacement owners will be a very simple procedure, which avoids any problems and controversies - "here's your new DS2, and a return label for the deposal company for your old device".  The second group (other DS1 owners without cloud data) and third group (old device users who likely abandoned their DME long ago) will prove more problematic.  Philips will be in no hurry to accommodate those groups.

[mrmagloo]

Do yourself a favor, go out to dinner a few less times,  pay the inflated money and go get a machine that works so your health is not in jeopardy. Then you can come on here and discuss the finer points of what should happen. But to wait is just crazy, Help is not around the corner.  A lot of this hand ringing, filing suits & introspection is doing nobody any immediate good, because Phillips in my opinion is just not listening.

Just my opinion.

While that is exactly what I did, I think it's important to remember that a good portion of the affected folks are on a fixed income, and their insurance isn't exactly making this easy.

When my insurance BCBS balked, I was able to make the outlay and see if they ever end up approving the expenditure at least against my deductible, that I never end up hitting anyway. But the reality is, I know for fact there is a sizable number of folks out there who simply do not have the excess funds to do the same.  For many, it's not that simple.  Seems a little cavalier to suggest that not going out to dinner a few times will solve the issue, to those people who have a hard time finding the funds to eat at all.  

It breaks my heart to keep hearing stories of those who have no choice but to keep using these damn machines, because they have no alternatives nor the resources to replace it. 

Please be considerate of those less fortunate when offering your pearls of wisdom. I know you meant well, but not all folks in this tragic situation are in the same boat - by a long shot.

[brianc18t]

It breaks my heart to keep hearing stories of those who have no choice but to keep using these damn machines, because they have no alternatives nor the resources to replace it. 

Please be considerate of those less fortunate when offering your pearls of wisdom. I know you meant well, but not all folks in this tragic situation are in the same boat - by a long shot.

Keep in mind that anyone with a little bit of smarts and access to the internet can easily figure out defoaming is a  no coast option.  If they are somewhat handy then they can defoam it on their own.  If they are not handy, they likely can find someone that is. This may not be a solution for everyone out there..... but for many it is.

[cathyf]

It breaks my heart to keep hearing stories of those who have no choice but to keep using these damn machines, because they have no alternatives nor the resources to replace it. 

Please be considerate of those less fortunate when offering your pearls of wisdom. I know you meant well, but not all folks in this tragic situation are in the same boat - by a long shot.

There is something that we can do (and several people here have mentioned doing it.) Many long-time cpap users have replaced machines and kept the old one as backup (sometimes more than one backup.) If you have a backup that works well enough, and a friend who needs it, you can loan or give it to them.

Last weekend I was talking to my friend who works at my little DME. (three stores, owned by a small hospital system.) She said that there are 3 insurance companies that are ridiculous cheapskates that insist that the only circumstance that they will pay to replace a machine is if the old machine is not repairable. (And actually they are just stupid, not cheap -- they have patients whose machine repairs over the years have cost more than multiple new machines.) Well a recall means "not repairable" so those folks are finally getting upgraded.

Also, from the dme side-- there are dmes that are exclusively PR distributors, and they literally have no machines at all. Everything before the DS2 is recalled, and all of the DS2s have been diverted to replacement machines. ResMed is dealing with the shortages by refusing new customers and shoveling A11's out the door as fast as they can build them and they are going exclusively to the dmes that they have long-standing relationships with. The office I go to is run by an RT who hates PR and has been doing everything that she can to divert customers into ResMed for the last 20 years. So their long-time patients are ok. But they are being inundated with the patients fleeing the PR-only places.

They are putting patients into low-hour returned ResMed machines, floor models, etc, as they are too small for ResMed to allocate new machines to.

[mrmagloo]

Keep in mind that anyone with a little bit of smarts and access to the internet can easily figure out defoaming is a  no coast option.  If they are somewhat handy then they can defoam it on their own.  If they are not handy, they likely can find someone that is.  This may not be a solution for everyone out there..... but for many it is.

You only have to read through the posts of Dreamstation owners on this first forum page to recognize that we are talking about the elderly that barely know how to use the internet in the first place, and absolutely don't have the ability to repair their own machines.  I think it's kind of assumptive to suggest folks can just thrust these machines in someone's lap and ask them to fix it.  Sure, it's not the hardest thing in the world, if you're handy.  But, assuming the average person is capable, and willing, it's kind of a stretch they will end up with a working machine. 

There is something that we can do (and several people here have mentioned doing it.) Many long-time cpap users have replaced machines and kept the old one as backup (sometimes more than one backup.) If you have a backup that works well enough, and a friend who needs it, you can loan or give it to them.

Last weekend I was talking to my friend who works at my little DME. (three stores, owned by a small hospital system.) She said that there are 3 insurance companies that are ridiculous cheapskates that insist that the only circumstance that they will pay to replace a machine is if the old machine is not repairable. (And actually they are just stupid, not cheap -- they have patients whose machine repairs over the years have cost more than multiple new machines.) Well a recall means "not repairable" so those folks are finally getting upgraded.

Also, from the dme side-- there are dmes that are exclusively PR distributors, and they literally have no machines at all. Everything before the DS2 is recalled, and all of the DS2s have been diverted to replacement machines. ResMed is dealing with the shortages by refusing new customers and shoveling A11's out the door as fast as they can build them and they are going exclusively to the dmes that they have long-standing relationships with. The office I go to is run by an RT who hates PR and has been doing everything that she can to divert customers into ResMed for the last 20 years. So their long-time patients are ok. But they are being inundated with the patients fleeing the PR-only places.

They are putting patients into low-hour returned ResMed machines, floor models, etc, as they are too small for ResMed to allocate new machines to.

Cathy, you are speaking to the choir.  I still have my very first CPAP a Remstar Auto I bought in 1999 that has 40,000+ hours.  Once I get my replacement, that will be my new backup as I continue to use the AS10. I am a big advocate on keeping my old machines, but the reality is, not many folks do that who aren't associated with a forum. I think this entire recall situation has caught a lot of folks flat footed in this regard.

There was just another woman from NY that posted the other day, and stated she could not get a new machine due to insurance and finances, but was aware of the recall, but had to continue to use the machine anyway. It breaks your heart to read that stuff. I wish I had the resources to help folks like that, and it's irritating as hell that Philips has fumbled this so badly. There are literally tens of thousands of folks still using these machines, and no doubt a good portion probably don't even know about the recall - and their providers aren't stepping up.

I will only add that my insurance would do Zero.  The vendor did Zero, said he had to send his truckload of new stock back, with no guidance or replacements from Philips.  I don't have a DME, but I'm not so sure they would have done much either.  Until I could find a decent deal on my new AS10, I was using my old Remstar Auto for a good month.

My only point was, some folks are really struggling here and don't have the ability to skip a couple of 'Surf & Turf' dinners and buy a new one.

[SingingSam]

btreger: "I guess I have to respond to my own post. I am just so tired of reading newer, safer foam that was put out by Philips when they did the initial recall. Ever since then everyone just repeats the same words.

There has never been a third-party clinical evaluation done to prove that, we still do not even know the scientific name of this new foam."

Exactly right. If the replacement foam is a medical grade of silicone foam or polyether urethane foam then I'll have no worries.

However, what we are promised so far is Magical Mystery Foam. We're expected trust two parties who historically have been untrustworthy, Philips and their pals at the FDA.

Good luck with that.

[btreger]

Recent posts suggest that this attached article may be appropriate at this time:

Can’t Afford a New CPAP Machine?  Here's How to Get Low-Cost or Free CPAP Supplies!

Most CPAP machines should be replaced every five years, but the voluntary CPAP recall of more than three million Philips Respironics-brand CPAP, APAP, and BiPAP machines has some customers wondering when—and how—to replace their current device, even if it is less than five years old. Unfortunately, buying a new CPAP machine isn’t an option for everyone. In this article, we’ll share options for finding a cheap or low-cost machine and help you determine if you qualify for free CPAP supplies.

Full article;

[DME Link Removed] See Supplier #1 Blog CPAP Assistance

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Moderator Action: DME Link Removed

To maintain our status as an educational organization, links to DME-owned or DME-operated websites and links to pages that sell prescription-required items are prohibited in forum posts.  This is stated in the Apnea Board Rules.

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[btreger]

Berger Montague Selected to Represent Members of Facebook Group "Philips CPAP Recall Support Group" Established to Help Those Injured by Philips' CPAP and BiPAP Machines


PHILADELPHIA, Sept. 15, 2021 /PRNewswire/ -- The national plaintiffs' law firm Berger Montague today announces that it has been selected to represent Philips CPAP user Tom Wilson of Neenah, Wisconsin, who used a Philips DreamStation I for over three years and is a member of the Facebook Group, "Philips CPAP Recall Support Group." Tom has seen that group's membership grow as consumers discover news about the recall of their Philips' CPAP and BiPAP equipment. Tom felt that injured customers needed leadership, direction, and questions answered. He also felt a need for an online community of users of the recalled machines who could provide support to one another and share information since there has been a lack of information from Philips.

Full article;

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/berger-mo...00450.html