[News] RECALL THREAD-- IMPORTANT PHILIPS DREAMSTATION & SYSTEM ONE USERS

[ruach]

My status of replacement for my system one ASV, used to say that my device was not matched to a DME, and to either sync up with the dream mapper OR, have my doctor fax an updated prescription - I had my doctor fax my prescription  a few weeks ago. . .

Now my status on the Philips website says that my replacement unit has been sent to my DME, and my DME will contact me when they have my replacement ready.

So, I wonder which DME they are sending my replacement to . . . since initially Philips Respironics status said my device wasn't matched to a DME.

[WakeUpTime]

So, I wonder which DME they are sending my replacement to . . . since initially Philips Respironics status said my device wasn't matched to a DME.

You bring up a concerning subject for many.  There are some who purchased secondhand systems either privately or from an online refurbishing reseller.  Who will Philips match their system to?  The original owner's DME?  (That would be a problem.)  Likely not the more-recent reseller, if they're not an official Philips authorized dealer.

For one of my systems, it was purchased by a local authorized dealer that doesn't exist anymore.  It's "matched to a DME".  Perhaps another dealer purchased their inventory and customer data.  The "Philips" 3rd party telemarketing agent can't/won't tell me which one they've selected.

There are device owners who have also switched DMEs through moving, not liking their original DME after, or other reasons.  They now have to rely on that original DME?  How accommodating with that original DME be in shipping out a replacement device to the owner who hasn't given them any business for several years?

It's likely that the last phase of replacements will take the longest - if they get any replacement at all.  In 2023, Philips will likely say they have several hundred thousand "misfits" who couldn't be accommodated by Philips' very strict protocols.  One or both of my Recalled devices will likely be in that category.

The process should have been much more transparent to device owners and more controllable by Philips device owners; however, Philips doesn't recognize owners as customers (DMEs are their customers).  Instead, Philips is working through a 3rd party agency, who may also be working through another agency, that may be using outdated data to connect with a DME (that may or may not be the appropriate one for the owner).  

The pressure was never on Philips to primarily satisfy faulty Philips device owners. The pressure was on Philips to accommodate local country health agency demands, while utilizing 3rd party agencies and currently-authorized dealers.  Faulty device owners waited significant periods of time (6-24 months) while sufferring all the consequences of owning/using faulty Philips devices.  

When all elements of the Recall are completed (including all Recall-related lawsuits), Philips will likely pay more than $2 Billion for not putting the interests of product owners first.  Additionally, going forward, Philips will have a significantly tarnished reputation globally that will affect all future sales of not only all its respiratory products, but other Philips medical products.  Philips' previous CEO was merely focused on Philips stockowners.  Ironically, those stockowners are the ones who ultimately pay for Philips errors in judgement.  

The reality is that there will be a significant quanitity of new and refurbished DreamStations that are put on the resale market by owners and DMEs in 2023.  Next year could be a very busy year for better quality secondhand resellers.  Many owners had previously switched to another brand and will simply shelve their Philips replacement.

[WakeUpTime]

Philips has just announced that it is eliminating 4,000 Philips employees (most of which are in the U.S.) as a result of the financial impact of the Recall on the company.  Before benefiting from the expense reduction, Philips will need to pay out an additional $300 Million in severance and termination costs.  Philips posted a financial loss of $1.28 Billion this past quarter.

"Philips CEO Starts Tenure by Cutting 4,000 Jobs Amid Recall Woes"
October 24, 2022  |  Bloomberg, Financial Times

The cuts amount to about 5% of Philips’s workforce, and the company will book severance and termination-related costs of about 300 million ($295 Million) in the coming quarters, Philips said Monday. The company announced the steps a good week after Roy Jakobs took over from Frans van Houten, who had held the CEO position for 12 years.

Dutch healthcare technology giant Philips is scrapping 4,000 staff worldwide amid the fallout from a recall of sleep apnea machines and economic headwinds, the company announced Monday as it unveiled a 1.3 billion euro ($1.28 billion) third-quarter net loss.

[Phaleronic]

So, I had an issue with the last correspondence that they sent out, so I called them and tried to go for option 2.  

"Required Actions:

1. Option 1: For faster remediation of your recalled device, please download the DreamMapper Application following the below instructions. Philips Respironics can then facilitate a secure transfer of your device prescription settings through the Philips Respironics DreamMapper app."

2. Option 2: If you are unable to register for DreamMapper, please provide all the following information by calling us directly at 888-511-2797.

• Physician Name

*This is the physician who would have your sleep therapy device settings.

• Physician Phone Number
• Legal name (Please check spelling)

I have a copy of my original prescription from 2017, but the sleep doctor that prescribed it no longer works at that hospital, a phillips call center rep told me they would try to reach him for an updated prescription, but that uploading the data to dreammapper would be much quicker.  I had to go through some hoops to do this, as the login is tied to my original device serial number and I couldn't remember the password.  I sold this original machine two years ago and I did not record the serial number.  I had to contact the DME in the hopes that they still had a record of the SN, which fortunately they did.  I followed the steps for the data uploader with this second APAP that I had purchased outright, which my mother now uses but the system didn't match as I had setup the account for the first APAP.  Within the app you can add a secondary SN (which is the one I registered in 2021) and once I did this, then ran the data installer it then recognized this serial number and uploaded the data correctly.  

I also registered my auto-bipap and ASV devices I purchased used (and then remediated them) at the same time, but the APAP was the first one to be called out for replacement...  I hope this helps someone a little bit.

R

[Labromaniac]

I would like to ask for some advice. My old System One ASV machine was older than 5 years when the recall came out so I have the $50 or refurbished/new current ASV machine option.

Since I have long ago replaced my Phillips ASV with the ResMed AirCurve 10 ASV and it is working great, I really have no intention of going back to Phillips.

So if I get a Phillips ASV machine rather than the $50, is there any way I can sell the device at a good price (obviously much more than $50) because it is a very expensive ASV machine? How would I go about that? Is there any risk to me selling the device if it is possible?

Thanks for your help.

[JJJ]

So if I get a Phillips ASV machine rather than the $50, is there any way I can sell the device at a good price (obviously much more than $50) because it is a very expensive ASV machine? How would I go about that? Is there any risk to me selling the device if it is possible?

Sure, you can sell the replacement machine. But bear in mind that in most jurisdictions your buyer needs a prescription to buy it, and it may also be illegal for you to sell it. But having said that, everyone does it, including online, and I've never heard of anyone being in trouble for it. The prescription thing is ridiculous, and everyone knows it. I got my first machine from the DME that my physican prescribed, but within a month I returned the machine and bought the same machine used on a local Craigslist to replace it. 

But you might find it more useful to just put your replacement machine on the shelf for a backup. Machines break down, and when they do it can take a while to get a replacement. Having a backup on the shelf can be really handy. Plus, as Murphy's law dictates, if you have a backup, your machine will never break down, but if you don't have a backup it will quickly go up in smoke, leaving you stuck with nothing.

[jiminoz]

I received a full refund for my Dreamstation GO.  I am in Australia, I don't know if that matters or not.  They refunded the CPAP, humidifier, and battery.

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I received a full refund for my Dreamstation GO.  I am in Australia, I don't know if that matters or not.  They refunded the CPAP, humidifier, and battery.

[Sleeprider]

Labromaniac, if you were to get a replacement ASV and wanted to sell it, your best options are to contact Supplier #2 or to sell on the open person-to-person market through Craigslist or Facebook Marketplace. No sales or posting of an available machine you intend to sell would be allowed on this forum.

[Labromaniac]

Sleeprider, very helpful as usual. Thank you very much.

Also thank you JJJ

[WakeUpTime]

I received a full refund for my Dreamstation GO.  I am in Australia, I don't know if that matters or not.  

Philips Australia's response is unique as a result of Australia's strong consumer protection laws, as well as Australia's proactive Health Ministry.  Those two agencies provide great support for medical products used by Australian consumers.  

AUSTRALIAN THERAPEUTIC GOODS ADMINISTRATION (TGA)

Philips is responding to consumer requests for refunds. If you are not satisfied with the refund or reimbursement offered, you should request the offer be reviewed. You can do this via the Philips Electronics Australia Ltd support hotline on 1800 009 579.  In addition, you have rights under the Australian Consumer Law which are entirely separate to any remedy Philips may provide as part of this recall action. You can find more information on the Australian Competition & Consumer Commission (ACCC) website about your consumer guarantee rights- external site.

Consumers and health professionals are encouraged to report problems with medical devices. Your report will contribute to the TGA's monitoring of these products. The TGA has taken regulatory action and fined Philips for the delay in providing important information.  Philips are now required to meet weekly with the TGA to ensure that progress with the remediation plan remains on track and any further delays to the repair/replacement program are identified as soon as possible.

AUSTRALIAN CONSUMER LAW (ACL)

Philips has advised Under Australian Consumer Law (ACL) you may be able to request a full refund from the place you bought the affected device if it meets the ACL requirements.  This defect would be classed as a “Major problem” under ACL as it is unsafe to use.  If the device meets ACL, the distributer cannot refuse to give you a refund or refer you to the manufacturer.

In addition, nothing precludes Australian Recalled Philips device owners from participating in individual or joint actions against Philips for any health (or other) consequences incurred as a result of using Philips defective products.