O2 Pattern familiar? in Summary in Wellue/Viatom's ViHealth app

[DavidEsp]

Hibernation-pattern?
Will be interesting to see how it develops.
Anyone else seen broadly similar patterns?
[img]blob:http://www.apneaboard.com/1290625f-df8c-4d14-a242-de91b4586eb8[/img]
Anyone else get shapes like this?
From (standard calendar) year-to-date summary page/screen in Wellue/Viatom phone app: ViHealth.
I've only had the (O2Ring) oximeter since January.

Hoping to determine periodically recurring sleep issues, headache and mood (etc.) causes/patterns (initially suspecting minor apnea as direct cause - but could headaches and breathing issues both be caused by something deeper?)

[Plmnb]

"Sleep apnea headaches are a recurring headache that some people with obstructive sleep apnea (OSA) experience upon waking up, at least 15 days per month. They are characterized by a pressing, not pulsing, pain that is usually felt across both sides of the head, and can last up to four hours."

I used to get these all the time before I started therapy. My headaches were between my eyes.  Even with my lousy results the headaches have stopped.  The doctor told me the headaches were caused by buildup of carbon monoxide.

Not sure if this was one of the things you were wondering about but thought it might help?

Regards.

[DavidEsp]

Well it certainly is among the input I'd like to receive!

Carbon monoxide from surroundings or generated/accumulated naturally in one's own body somehow?

And what kind of therapy helps?

FYPI:

Years before considering apnea (having only recently discovered my Dad has it), I borrowed state of the art CO measuring equipment (electronic and chemical, by donating to manufacturer's Xmas party!) and found only extremely low levels. Blood tests (that I requested, having been advised by experts that it was the most sensitive test for CO levels/accumulation) again only indicated marginal presence of CO.  

Later, for a few years, I slept in a cabin with no gas etc., windows open, on a solid concrete base (so nothing could perfuse into the cabin from below).  None of this stopped the headaches though.  

After that period, living in a coastal clifftop flat/apartment, the headaches actually got worse! (For a while). Which is when I finally brought it up with my doctor, who did tests, saying that at least they showed "nothing nasty", before giving up.

I'm toying now with ideas like deliberately setting an alarm to wake me up say 2am (which I do anyway sometimes, especially if dog wants to go out), then coffee, which (unexpectedly) helps me return to sleep (often deeper than pre-break).  I have ADHD, so minor stimulant (coffee) helps "wake up" the regulating (including sleep-regulating) part of the brain to do its job! So the theory goes.  Has observably, repeatedly helped me to return to sleep somehow, anyhow.  And the subsequent sleep is actually deeper (as depicted by oximeter levels and trends).


I really want objective evidence though, and to understand its implications.

[Plmnb]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7016602/


See if this link helps you.

[DavidEsp]

Thank you indeed Plmnb!
The excerpt: "associations between MH and time below 90% SpO2, level of average oxygen desaturation, and of the lowest SpO2, but not average SpO2" tallies with my observations (against my assumptions/expectations that it was only the cumulative e.g. average that would matter.

In the Abstract of the second of the referenced Russell et al papers it is stated that: "oxygen desaturation alone cannot explain the pathophysiology of sleep apnea headache", and also: "The cause of sleep apnea headache remains to be elucidated".

So at least it's a known-unknown.

[Plmnb]

You are welcome.

All I know iis from an anecdotal standpoint.  When I use pap therapy, no headaches.  When I don't use pap therapy I usually develop the headaches.

[DavidEsp]

I did wonder what was meant by "Morning Headache", e.g. was it defined as something one wakes up with and/or only lasted for the morning?

I found answers ("yes and yes", as I interpret them) in the body of the second of the referenced Russell et al papers (though I don't know how widespread/standard this definition is):
"Definition of sleep apnea headache and morning headache
Sleep apnea headache is usually a universal morning headache of less than four hours’ duration caused by sleep apnea."
"Morning headache is similar to that of sleep apnea headache, but it is not caused by obstructive sleep apnea."

My own headache pattern is somewhat outside this definition.

Paradoxically, my pattern often begins after a really good (feeling & productivity) day and a good complete night's sleep, waking up the following day (maybe slightly floaty) with an impression of no problems, indeed expecting another good day. However, as the morning or even afternoon and evening progress, it's as if something in my brain (some kind of diminished awareness) has by then sufficiently recovered to start feeling/detecting that a few things are not quite right, e.g. that I had not been as fully awake/alert/clear-thinking (until that point) as I had felt/assumed. More importantly (from my POV), beyond that point (over the rest of the day) "my old friend" the headache slowly but steadily increases, the resulting (somewhat debilitating) headache remaining with me for usually 2 to 4 days. Over that period I typically take codein & paracetomol (doesn't kill it but at least makes it more tolerable) every 4 hours for the first 2 or 3 days, after which (as per instructions) I stop taking them (regardless of headache, in order to avoid acclimation etc. - my Dr. says the brain physically adapts to overcome that medication's benefit - at a neuronal level).

Due to the unpredictability of these incapacitating headaches, I no longer offer my background acting services to the film industry (I refuse to put myself in a position where I might have to let them down - causing them continuity problems, and of course besmerching my reputable track record).

My Dr.'s stated neuronal-level adaption phenomenon intrigues me. It implies some kind of (slow responding) feedback system. Perhaps its purpose/effect is to maintain either the pain perception level itself, or as a vehicle to "intentionally" impose a degree of suffering/incapacitation (for whatever reason I cannot imagine) upon me - or else (more likely? assuming it is an evolved feature rather a "random system feature") a brain state in which not only the pain but also some (unknown to me) more important brain function will be able to thrive.

Being fully aware of the correlation/causation dichotomy, I do not assume that O2 deficiencies (average O2 drop, as rejected by Russell et al's results, or lowest O2 drop, as alternatively postulated) actually cause my headaches. In the absence of further "input", it could equally be that something else causes both, simultaneously (and who-knows what else).

A gut-feeling "something else" possibility that I imagine (no more than that) is that, especially after a "perfect day" (when perhaps I might have "done too much" mentally for my "hardware"), my brain somehow "goes too much to sleep", and that the subsequent (next day) steadily increasing degrees of awareness and pain both reflect my brain "coming more fully back to life". Same as would happen if my brain had been deprived of oxygen, either through insufficient input (apnea) or transport (blood) issues. I associate Carbon Monoxide with "sabotage" of that transport system. I have of course had blood tests to rule out fundamental problems with that system. Could it be that the brain itself is at fault, "not opening its mail" (so to speak)? Like some kind of "lazy/exhausted mitochondria" thing?

In which case, my "deepest of sleep states" could be a double-edged sword: vitally restorative in some ways, but damaging in others. ADHD being fundamentally a knock-on effect of brain regulation issues (having both structural and chemical underpinnings), I naturally wonder whether inadequate/afflicted sleep-level regulation is the core issue here. Everything else being mere side-effects.

Any further prompts (complete answers (!), fields, terms, papers, suggestions) would be most welcome.