[Pressure] Newbee - 1st Evening Failure

[SarcasticDave94]

Nothing new to add. I'd ditto what was said by Dormeo. Getting to sleep longer benefits more than less. The foreign alien strapped on isn't going to kill, or at least I've not heard of news of that happening. The opposite can be true though, untreated apnea can in fact lead to death. I have a script of a med. so as to fall asleep better. It's due to the fight or flight insomnia I've had due to massive untreated apnea until 2017 when I started fighting to get this thing controlled. Unfortunate, fight/flight was still active and I took hours to drift off to sleep. Since I'm disabled and not able to work, it didn't much impact life but I needed to be retrained on falling asleep knowing I'm not fighting an apnea demon. It gets better with more use, and the success does build onto itself. One great night of sleep builds confidence and a rest that has been absent for a long time feels great. So to get that rest again, it had to be repeated. Try to avoid overthinking the alien on a cord stuck to your face. It's attempting to add life instead of sucking it away and being beamed up to the mother ship. Sleep in a comfortable for you position.

And things could be a lot worse, try to ask this guy with the bubble mask.

[sheepless]

"On numerous occasions I felt like I was going into shallow breath, that I was lacking incoming air and I believe that this triggered internal alarm bells and woke me up, or stopped me falling asleep just before I should have."

that's what apnea, particularly central apnea, feels like to me.

I didn't go back through this entire thread so apologies if I missed this: if I'm reading correctly, the feeling you describe in the quote above was with cpap on your side in bed. do you feel this way with cpap in the recliner? more importantly, do you feel this way without cpap?

also, you have this messy flow when you are awake or possibly dozing on and off and you have some nice calm flows when you're asleep. have we seen a closer view of your 'good' breathing when you know you're asleep? if you're up for it, it might be interesting to see a 3 minute and a 10 minute view in an area where you're asleep with no events and same including a sleeping ca. maybe you can get ca and no ca in one shot.

as mentioned by others, you don't have many events in the longer sessions when you're more clearly asleep. something is causing the uneven flow, flow limitations and your breath holding when you are less than sound asleep. I'm not real confident we'll learn much - looking at your sleeping flows might only confirm the obvious difference - but maybe we'll get lucky and see a hint in there somewhere.

if flows when you know your are sleeping are consistently better than awake/dozing, it might be something like pain or anxiety that you're not aware of during sleep.(?) something not related to apnea and cpap. that might be 'confirmed' if you experience the same shallow breathing and alarm when not on cpap.

[Snooks]

"On numerous occasions I felt like I was going into shallow breath, that I was lacking incoming air and I believe that this triggered internal alarm bells and woke me up, or stopped me falling asleep just before I should have."

that's what apnea, particularly central apnea, feels like to me.

I didn't go back through this entire thread so apologies if I missed this: if I'm reading correctly, the feeling you describe in the quote above was with cpap on your side in bed.  do you feel this way with cpap in the recliner?  more importantly, do you feel this way without cpap?

also, you have this messy flow when you are awake or possibly dozing on and off and you have some nice calm flows when you're asleep. have we seen a closer view of your 'good' breathing when you know you're asleep?  if you're up for it, it might be interesting to see a 3 minute and a 10 minute view in an area where you're asleep with no events and same including a sleeping ca.  maybe you can get ca and no ca in one shot.

as mentioned by others, you don't have many events in the longer sessions when you're more clearly asleep. something is causing the uneven flow, flow limitations and your breath holding when you are less than sound asleep.  I'm not real confident we'll learn much - looking at your sleeping flows might only confirm the obvious difference - but maybe we'll get lucky and see a hint in there somewhere.

if flows when you know your are sleeping are consistently better than awake/dozing, it might be something like pain or anxiety that you're not aware of during sleep.(?)  something not related to apnea and cpap. that might be 'confirmed' if you experience the same shallow breathing and alarm when not on cpap.

that's what apnea, particularly central apnea, feels like to me.
I am sure it was a Central going to happen, I felt it numerous times but only had one event so it may just be anxiety. I was sleeping on my side in bed.

it might be interesting to see a 3 minute and a 10 minute view in an area where you're asleep with no events and same including a sleeping ca.  maybe you can get ca and no ca in one shot. 
There are numerous attachments in the last 2 pages that show various events and time frames. I will see if i still have the images so i can post them again.

something not related to apnea and cpap. that might be 'confirmed' if you experience the same shallow breathing and alarm when not on cpap.
I do have very minor copd but quite serious AFIB, brought on by the SA. I have a cardiac appointment and tests in about 10 days, that may certainly tell us more. But I really wanted to show him i have been undertaking and achieving therapy, not failing I do lack breath when laying on my back, if I have eaten too much etc and often need to take a larger "gulp" by mouth. I don't know if that is a daytime CA, or obesity or the AFIB or everything : know that breathing through the nose and pursed lip breathing helps. Sleeping in the recliner certainly seems to have caused way more CA's and I assume this is due to the positioning. I thought being on CPAP would have made that position ok and i have seen it recommended various times.

The fact it may be CA terrifies me, because I have an Airsense 10 Auto coming in around 2 weeks and if it is Centrals the machine is no good. I haven't a cent extra that I can put towards a $2,000 more expensive machine

[SarcasticDave94]

The most recent post reminded me, other health issues do play a part in gaining rest and comfort during sleep. I have COPD, parts of GOLD level 1 and 2. These 2 levels represent lower COPD illness affects against one's health, but they must be accounted for in apnea treatment as well, especially if they affect sleep. Maybe mention this to the doc, if you think it'll help. Maybe you need a therapy device that affects not only apnea but also COPD. And certainly don't forget the heart condition. Mention all together to treating physician, as all included may mean a new direction on therapy, and one that may be better for you specifically.

[Snooks]

   
   



@ Sheepless

Hope these two shots are what you meant.

And just to confirm, i do sometimes feel like i have forgotten to breathe during the daytime, say like laying down watch TV and I take a larger breath by mouth and often yawn. My grave fear is that it is Dyspnea, which i think my Cardiac Spec will confirm it is, when i see him and have a whole bunch of heart tests in around 10 days. (AFIB)

It gets worse when i think of it so some part of the issue is definitely anxiety.

[Snooks]

The most recent post reminded me, other health issues do play a part in gaining rest and comfort during sleep. I have COPD, parts of GOLD level 1 and 2. These 2 levels represent lower COPD illness affects against one's health, but they must be accounted for in apnea treatment as well, especially if they affect sleep. Maybe mention this to the doc, if you think it'll help. Maybe you need a therapy device that affects not only apnea but also COPD. And certainly don't forget the heart condition. Mention all together to treating physician, as all included may mean a new direction on therapy, and one that may be better for you specifically.

For sure.

I am seeing the Cardiac Spec in around 10 days for tests on how the heart is coping. It was him and his partner (Lung Respitory Specialist) that started the ball rolling on the SA.

The minor COPD has not really been brought up, since it first was detected 2 years ago.

The AFIB is made extremely worse by the OSA and he stated he his concerned about the heart progressing to heart failure. But the dam C19 Virus meant they would not take me in for 9 months for the sleep studies, a delay which has not helped.

I do walk about 3 miles per day, 3 times per week and yes i need deep breaths at times, but i cope fine.

I also believe that the meds can cause issues.

Fingers crossed i have not progressed too far into the irreversible trend of heart failure.

[SarcasticDave94]

OK do let us know how it progresses, and how therapy is doing. As much as possible do use the PAP therapy and address overall sleep health hygiene.

[Snooks]

OK do let us know how it progresses, and how therapy is doing. As much as possible do use the PAP therapy and address overall sleep health hygiene.

I sure will and thanks for the comments and advice.

[sheepless]

I wasn't clear that I was asking if you feel the shallow breathing and alarm without cpap while sleeping. however, if you're feeling that way while awake and we don't see the ragged flow so much when you know you are asleep, I guess that tells us it's unrelated to cpap and probably not simple treatment emergent pressure induced ca. at this point I've reached the limit of my 'knowledge' and am out of ideas. I'm intrigued, if that's the right word, by the fact that your 50 minute screenshots look much like my 10 minute plm pattern. I count my kicks to be roughly 20 seconds apart, sometimes up to a minute, while your spikes look to be 1-5 minutes apart. that pattern surely looks like movement, but if it is, who can say if movement contributes to your flow limitations or you move about in your struggle to breathe through the flow limitations. I don't have enough exposure beyond my own plm to know how it presents in others so all I can tell you is to keep plm in the back of your mind and hope your doctors will figure out what's going on. and while easier said than done, encourage you, as others have, to focus on easing your anxiety levels.

one last thought, not a happy one: if your doc is concerned about progressing to heart failure, I wonder, with absolutely no knowledge of such things, if what we're seeing is a precursor to the sinusoidal waxing and waning breathing punctuated by ca typical of cheyne-stokes breathing. however, that you don't seem to have it when you know you're asleep leads me to think not.

with afib and copd, it's a wonder to me they haven't put you on a higher level machine. hopefully you'll progress faster after your next tests.

sorry I haven't helped. I wish you the best and look forward to reading about your progress.

[Snooks]

I wasn't clear that I was asking if you feel the shallow breathing and alarm without cpap while sleeping.  however, if you're feeling that way while awake and we don't see the ragged flow so much when you know you are asleep, I guess that tells us it's unrelated to cpap and probably not simple treatment emergent pressure induced ca. at this point I've reached the limit of my 'knowledge' and am out of ideas. I'm intrigued, if that's the right word, by the fact that your 50 minute screenshots look much like my 10 minute plm pattern. I count my kicks to be roughly 20 seconds apart, sometimes up to a minute, while your spikes look to be 1-5 minutes apart.  that pattern surely looks like movement, but if it is, who can say if movement contributes to your flow limitations or you move about in your struggle to breathe through the flow limitations. I don't have enough exposure beyond my own plm to know how it presents in others so all I can tell you is to keep plm in the back of your mind and hope your doctors will figure out what's going on.  and while easier said than done, encourage you, as others have, to focus on easing your anxiety levels.

one last thought, not a happy one: if your doc is concerned about progressing to heart failure, I wonder, with absolutely no knowledge of such things, if what we're seeing is a precursor to the sinusoidal waxing and waning breathing punctuated by ca typical of cheyne-stokes breathing.  however, that you don't seem to have it when you know you're asleep leads me to think not.  

with afib and copd, it's a wonder to me they haven't put you on a higher level machine. hopefully you'll progress faster after your next tests.

sorry I haven't helped. I wish you the best and look forward to reading about your progress.

You certainly have helped so thank you greatly for that.

Just to confirm one final thing, which i may not have worded correctly:

In bed i feel myself sort of stopping to breathe and then it scares me, when I am awake, i am simply aware that I need to take a larger breath of air, which i do through my mouth. I dont feel it dwindiling like i do at night on the cpap.

I also did not have these issues in hospital on both sleep studies, so i really think it is anxiety. But we will find out probably in 10 days.

Thanks again, stay safe