SoClean & other CPAP cleaning machines

[Walla Walla]

I think I'd listen to Melman who has the background to know.

[srlevine1]

Is it possible and advantageous to combine the two threads in date order?

[JimInPT]

yawn. I am sorry but yet another thread about SoClean and the exact same posts and arguments. I don't think anyone is changing their mind on either side.

Yep.  I don't doubt what Melman says, or similar comments from others - the non-penetrating, non-mechanical cleaning points make absolute sense.  HOWEVER, in my case, I have NO slime, snot, drool, internal oils or any other sludge getting backwashed into my system, because I use nasal gel pillows.  How do I know?  I put my little finger into the hose at both ends and the fittings on my Dreamwear - they are absolutely dry and nothing wipes off onto my finger.  But I wouldn't be surprised if there were microscopic critters sitting there simply from, well, life and breathing and all that.

So, if ozone works to kill organic matter on the surface(s) exposed to it, I consider that good routine sanitizing.  I'm not particularly paranoid about APAP killing me via infection, but it's cheap insurance and especially should help the interior of the machine stay sanitary (soap and water never get there!).  I wipe the exterior of my mask and pillow assembly every couple of days, but even then I'm not seeing anything being removed - they look pretty clean, and I expect them to stay that way until they're replaced with a new batch of supplies.

So I'm good with my SoClean as I've stated before.  I have NEVER seen a real study or test that indicates it's a waste of money and I wonder about how many of those who really harsh on it (not including folks like Melman, who speak from a biochem approach) have ever used or owned one of these machines.

If I had to wear a full-face or even nose-enclosing mask, I'm sure I'd be soaping and watering at least those parts.

[PoolQ]

I think I'd listen to Melman who has the background to know.

ah yes but this is the internet and no one really knows who we are or what our background is. This subject depends on what the SoClean is being used for? Yes? I seem to remember a Doctor that used to post and give all kinds of advice, and then it was found out that he was just some bored guy from SoCal that had never been a doctor. This is the internet. Quoting all kinds of documents does not make them relevant to the subject at hand. This is the internet. If someone wishes to believe me or anyone else here, great have a great day.

Hospital sterilization? ah no.
multi person use? uh no
in place of washing at least the mask? ah no
does the ozone escape the system? ah no
will the ozone ever go about the above listed guidelines? ah no
does it penetrate films? ah no, but then I wash my masks and so I don't have films that I give a hoot about.

I used to laugh at the SoClean and diligently wash all my equipment, a lot. I got tired of that so now I was my mask and sometimes my humidifier chamber if I happen to be using it. That's it. I am happy and health.

Remember the manufacturer misleading people is the same as a well intentioned, but incorrect person on the internet. This goes for me also. The story has been told and retold and will likely continue being told and retold. If anyone does a search on SoClean they will get all they need to know about the subject without going on for pages and pages. The SoClean is a side issue for CPAP and I have zero idea why people are getting so upset about it.

[Melman]

yawn. I am sorry but yet another thread about SoClean and the exact same posts and arguments. I don't think anyone is changing their mind on either side.

I would be happy to not see another post about SoClean. I respond to provide information to new posters  who bring it up and correct erroneous information, not to change the mind of anyone who has his mind made up. You can always skip them if you object.

[Walla Walla]

I think I'd listen to Melman who has the background to know.

ah yes but this is the internet and no one really knows who we are or what our background is. This subject depends on what the SoClean is being used for? Yes? I seem to remember a Doctor that used to post and give all kinds of advice, and then it was found out that he was just some bored guy from SoCal that had never been a doctor. This is the internet. Quoting all kinds of documents does not make them relevant to the subject at hand. This is the internet. If someone wishes to believe me or anyone else here, great have a great day.

Hospital sterilization? ah no.
multi person use? uh no
in place of washing at least the mask? ah no
does the ozone escape the system? ah no
will the ozone ever go about the above listed guidelines? ah no
does it penetrate films? ah no, but then I wash my masks and so I don't have films that I give a hoot about.

I used to laugh at the SoClean and diligently wash all my equipment, a lot. I got tired of that so now I was my mask and sometimes my humidifier chamber if I happen to be using it. That's it. I am happy and health.

Remember the manufacturer misleading people is the same as a well intentioned, but incorrect person on the internet. This goes for me also. The story has been told and retold and will likely continue being told and retold. If anyone does a search on SoClean they will get all they need to know about the subject without going on for pages and pages. The SoClean is a side issue for CPAP and I have zero idea why people are getting so upset about it.

Yep  gotta go with Melman.  

[JimInPT]

if by cleaning you mean killing bacteria in the snot and facial oils oils your mistaken. ozone does not penetrate effectively.

Melman, I've got a hypothetical along those lines (I said my piece about SC above, where I agree with your point).

Let's say there's oil and "gunk" present, with bacteria within that ozone can't reach or kill.  Wouldn't that bacteria be considered "encapsulated" (I'm a recovering mechanical engineer, bear with me here) and harmless unless it somehow got dislodged or worked its way to the surface?

Dislodged.... yech.  If it moves in clumps, then pieces and parts need to be thrown out.  Yeah, I saw those disgusting photos on that one thread - I bet that guy's ashtrays were overflowing onto the coffee table as well. 

But if somehow the bacteria surfaced (through hose or mask flexing, let's say) and became theoretically harmful, wouldn't the next morning's ozone bath take care of it?

Again, I look at the world mechanically and fix things with hammers if necessary but preferably my Swiss Army knife and duct tape.

[Melman]

Interesting hypothetical. You may have a valid point but I'm not sure how much the residues become oxidized or if all surface bacteria are killed in the process. Also the humidity in the system would probably soften any oxidized crust and bacteria could continue to grow and be exposed. Would the next days ozone take care of it? Perhaps. They are probably not pathogens anyway so it may not matter. It's fine with me if someone wants to spend $300 for the machine and regular filter replacement costs. I just want them to understand what they are getting and not getting if they ask about it.

[JimInPT]

It's fine with me if someone wants to spend $300 for the machine and regular filter replacement costs. I just want them to understand what they are getting and not getting if they ask about it.

Yeah, that's outrageous; people need to be shown alternatives to $60+/year maintenance.  I used my bigtime M.E. skills to work a screwdriver into that filter housing and take a peek.

Turns out, a lifetime supply of that carbon material can be had on Amazon for about 10 bucks and the one-way filter is a $1.50 aquarium part that should last for many, many months if not a few years.  Don't know about the mechanism of ozone generation ..... maybe a spark generator?  That might be good for a very long time if properly designed.

A hundred years ago I worked on designing/testing communications satellites.  The gigantic thermal/vacuum test chamber to simulate outer space had blinding sun-simulator lighting at the top that turned the oxygen in the chamber to ozone and bestowed instant sunburn upon exposed skin.  Got to wear earthbound spacesuits, essentially, with breathing apparatus to work in that environment.  Got my fill of ozone smell during those test cycles, but I really don't mind a whiff from the SC2 machine now and then.  Usually remember to run the Mask Fit cycle after cleaning to flush the system anyway.

[PoolQ]

JimInPT you bring up the concept of context. The test system you describe is in use because of the ramifications of a failure down the line (in space). Context here is consumer level verses Lab, Hospital or any place that the ramifications could ruin days, weeks, months of research or spread infectious diseases among an infirmed population. 


Would I ever expect to see this product in a lab or hospital? Not anyone that I want anything to do with. But then this is not what this is for and comparing a $300 consumer product and pointing out that it would not pass lab scrutiny, while very true, is not applicable.

Some people here and on other boards have spoken up about what they like about SoClean and so far I have not heard anyone disappointed that this product would not work in their sleep lab, hospital, or microbiology department/lab.

It's a little like finding out that an airplane would not do well if launched into space? It was never designed to do that.