[Mod Note] Prevention rather than Cure ? - Thread Closed

[Micheal.M]

There is no constant flow of air into your body and if you don't breathe on your own you actually would die.

That’s really hard to reply when you say there’s no constant flow yet the C in CPAP is for Constant/Continuous.
 And when you say if you didn’t breathe on your own you’d die yet CPaP and Bipap machines are designed to keep you alive when you have Central Apnea. That is, when you don’t breathe on your own.


I respect your knowledge and position in this field but when the C stands for constant and you say it’s  not constant....?

[Dog Slobber]

He said the *flow* was not constant.

He said nothing about the pressure not being constant. CPAPs provide constant (continuous) pressure.

[Gideon]

Continuous positive airway pressure (CPAP) is a type of positive airway pressure that is used to deliver a set pressure to the airways that is maintained throughout the respiratory cycle, during both inspiration and expiration.

This is the definition. It's purpose is solely to open obstructions, not to breathe for you.

Also note that the max pressure possible with a CPAP is extremely small.

[Gideon]

Do note that many people confuse pressure with flow. Why, I think because many think flow is pressure. There is a big difference between air pressure and air flow.

Turn on your garden hose, leave the nozzle off. There is now a constant pressure in the hose. Try to put a kink in the hose. You will find it harder to kink the hose now then when the hose is off and the pressure drained from the hose. this is what a CPAP does.

When you water your garden nothing happens when you point the pressurized hose at the garden untill you pull the trigger and you get flow, just like your body when you inhale.

Does that make sense.

[Sleepster]

And when you say if you didn’t breathe on your own you’d die yet CPaP and Bipap machines are designed to keep you alive when you have Central Apnea. That is, when you don’t breathe on your own.

If you can't breathe on your own a CPAP machine will not do the breathing for you. That's what a ventilator does and a CPAP machine is not a ventilator.

If you have central apnea what a specially designed CPAP machine can do for you is initiate breathing. You have to move your diaphragm with your own muscles to breathe.

[Sleepster]

Been on a CPAP machine for several years but I feel a bit trapped. When I can’t use my machine I have a horrible night and the next day is a blur.

I've worn eye glasses for several years. When I can't wear them I have a horrible day. I can't see anything and everything is a blur.

I’ve got a theory that my respiratory muscles aren’t working too hard at night and I’m over 60 and not exactly an athlete.
 So should I be doing more respiratory training during the day to offset the muscular ‘downtime’ at night ?
 And If I consistently worked on those muscles would I be able to get off cpap or is it a totally different thing ?

That's just a thought that crossed your mind. It has no connection to reality. I could exercise my eye muscles all day and I'd still need my glasses. My glasses don't make my eyes weak and lazy, on the contrary, they allow me to relax my eye muscles. I don't have to squint to see things.

If you have obstructive apnea then you are are struggling to breathe and those diaphragm muscles are getting a real workout. They're trying to lower the diaphragm but the diaphragm either won't move or a lot of effort is required to make it move because the upper airway is either closed off or restricted. If properly treated with CPAP therapy you can breathe naturally, with less effort, just as you would if you were awake and were not connected to a CPAP machine.

[Micheal.M]

So for a machine to supply Continuous positive airway pressure it would need to supply constant Flow. Because of the constant flow air moves in and out of your lungs like blowing into a paper bag. Even when your lungs are full the air will still create currents inside your respiratory system with the only exit being the holes in the mask.

If there’s a flow and an exit the air will constantly refresh inside regardless of any movement of the muscles or lungs.
 That flow of air contains enough oxygen to sustain life regardless of whether you actively breathe or not.

[upsman]

Again, you have to understand that PAP therapy does not push air into the lungs.
There is a small amount of air pressure supplied which is just enough to open your airway so that YOU can fill your lungs with air using the same muscles you use to breathe normally. 

I believe I read that the amount of air pressure supplied by PAP...even at the highest pressure of 20 cm...is not enough to inflate a balloon. It may seem like hurricane-force winds, but it's really a small amount of air pressure.

[Dog Slobber]

So for a machine to supply Continuous positive airway pressure it would need to supply constant Flow. 

No, you don't need to continue providing constant flow to supply continuous pressure. You don't understand the difference between flow and pressure. Flow is the movement of fluid, pressure is the force.


Take a balloon, start blowing it up, then stop. The flow has stopped but the pressure remains.

With CPAP there will always be a continuous flow, but not into one's lungs, but from the blower to the vent holes because of the continuous venting.

[Micheal.M]

UPSMAN,
If PAP therapy does not push air into the lungs, Can you tell me where the air goes or stops ?
Dog slobber, so you’re saying the air goes up to the lungs but stops before going in ?
Even when you fully exhale you still have a litre of air in your lungs so what’s stopping the introduced air from getting into your lungs ?