Some questions about sleep apnea and what's worked for others..

[Dreidels]

Basically I did a sleep study and had moderate sleep apnea, mixed obstructive and central. I cannot remember oxygen level or hypopnea events or anything, but they recommended some surgeries and cpap, I tried clap which they said it made it worse (could just be I didn't really try it cause I was not happy with the thought of using it for the rest of my life..), anyway, I ended up having a septoplasty / nasal turbinate reduction, which they also said did not help - though they only removed a little.. When I went back in they recommended like 4 different surgeries they could try (which, granted, they are a really good sleep lab/ent,) but when they say the chance of it working is less than 30% or whatever those crazy numbers are, I don't want to try anything.
I've come to realize if I drink caffeine or play games before sleeping, I don't dream - period. When I don't do either for a few nights I start having very vivid dreams, and I'm wondering if this has anything to do with sleep apnea.

I'm looking for some suggestions to try that don't involve surgery, I'm not over weight... If anything, under, I play ice hockey, almost 4 or 5 times a week, but I'm tired of being tired all the time, and not coping with late nights like most people my age, and not having the focus and sharpness I used to have. Especially in hockey, sometimes I play really well, other times I suck.

Also, something interesting... I'm trying to figure out what caused it, but when I went on a cruise last year and came back I felt EXTREMELY alert, like heightened senses and sharper mind, and it happens most of the time when I go on a cruise... The only things that changed were:
More sun exposure,
Walking over 10,000 steps a day (around the ship)
The mattress I was sleeping on being more firmer,
Eating more - the obvious one, but not necessarily more healthy, aside from dinner.
Ocean breeze? Relaxing?

I know his is kind of weird, but I'm open to trying new things and curious if anyone has any experiences like mine or ideas.. I really don't want to go have a surgery to stitch my tongue back or something crazy like that, but I also don't want a pace maker when I get older like my dad recently got.. Though it may inevitably happen anyway. Thanks for any tips or thoughts

[justMongo]

Sounds like you have an ENT. And yours sounds surgery happy.
I would change doctors and get one who knows sleep medicine.

If CPAP didn't help, then I would guess you have mixed apnea, and require a different type of machine.
The machine for treating mixed apnea is the ASV. It provides, on a breath by breath basis, a pressure pulse to inflate the lungs if you fail to initiate a breath on your own.

If you don't make a commitment to lifetime PAP, you might just wind up with cardiac issues.

Those are my opinions.

Mongo

[Sleepster]

(could just be I didn't really try it cause I was not happy with the thought of using it for the rest of my life..)

Try it for six months. I guarantee that after the six months is up you won't be able to live without it.

Untreated sleep apnea has plagued our parents, grandparents, and so on through the generations. For the first time we have a treatment for it that works. As much as I'd love to be able to live without CPAP, the fact is I can't.

[Dreidels]

I appreciate both comments.. He does do a lot of surgeries but I also know he's a good ent, he did cure my dads apnea but he had like 4 surgeries or so, and still has to use cpap... The cpap they had me try was the bi- whatever one he said was for central, and sleep study did say it made it worse, but I also didn't do a very good job getting accustomed to it like I should've,
Does a cpap really make that much of a difference tho? In other words, when you got accustomed to it and it was working, do you feel a difference/notice a difference? That's what I want... I want to be able to tell a difference in sleep quality, energy, quality of life, whatever.

[justMongo]

Does a cpap really make that much of a difference tho? In other words, when you got accustomed to it and it was working, do you feel a difference/notice a difference? That's what I want... I want to be able to tell a difference in sleep quality, energy, quality of life, whatever.

Not for all; but they may have other conditions. For many, it improves restorative sleep which results in all the things your seek.

You said, "moderate sleep apnea," that should be treated.

And, off topic, as this will not lead to a cure for apnea, have your physician test your 25-OH-vitD level. It's winter in the northern hemisphere; and you may be low on vitamin D.

[DeepBreathing]

G'day Dreidels, welcome to Apnea Board.

I also know he's a good ent, he did cure my dads apnea but he had like 4 surgeries or so, and still has to use cpap.

I hate to cast aspersions at this doctor, but from the little you've told us he's not competent to treat sleep apnea. It wasn't the four operations which cured your father - it was the cpap. (And it's not really a cure but that's a different argument). My guess is that he would have had the same outcome if he'd gone straight onto the machine without four surgeries.

A properly prescribed and set up PAP machine will treat any form of apnea, including central and mixed. There is NO surgical cure for central apnea - it's a condition of the autonomic nervous system, where the brain "forgets" to tell the lungs to "breathe now". Using the incorrect machine or one which is not properly set up for you can and does make this condition worse. The ONLY treatment for this condition is a bilevel adaptive servo-ventilator (ASV) PAP machine. As JustMongo said above, this type of machine monitors your breathing on a breath-by-breath basis and will initiate a pressure pulse if you don't breathe on your own.

I can't guarantee that PAP therapy will work for you - many people can't hack it and give up. I read somewhere that up to 50% give up within 12 months. But with a positive attitude, the right machine properly adjusted, a doctor who knows what he's doing, and a strong support network - with all that in place you should see a substantial improvement.

[Dreidels]

G'day Dreidels, welcome to Apnea Board.

I also know he's a good ent, he did cure my dads apnea but he had like 4 surgeries or so, and still has to use cpap.

I hate to cast aspersions at this doctor, but from the little you've told us he's not competent to treat sleep apnea. It wasn't the four operations which cured your father - it was the cpap. (And it's not really a cure but that's a different argument). My guess is that he would have had the same outcome if he'd gone straight onto the machine without four surgeries.

A properly prescribed and set up PAP machine will treat any form of apnea, including central and mixed. There is NO surgical cure for central apnea - it's a condition of the autonomic nervous system, where the brain "forgets" to tell the lungs to "breathe now". Using the incorrect machine or one which is not properly set up for you can and does make this condition worse. The ONLY treatment for this condition is a bilevel adaptive servo-ventilator (ASV) PAP machine. As JustMongo said above, this type of machine monitors your breathing on a breath-by-breath basis and will initiate a pressure pulse if you don't breathe on your own.

I can't guarantee that PAP therapy will work for you - many people can't hack it and give up. I read somewhere that up to 50% give up within 12 months. But with a positive attitude, the right machine properly adjusted, a doctor who knows what he's doing, and a strong support network - with all that in place you should see a substantial improvement.

I guess I should have clarified, he was on cpap before surgeries, and it improved his apnea some, after surgeries his apnea was gone with cpap. And the surgery recommended for me was one that stimulates the nerves or something if your oxygen falls to a certain level, it involved a little device you turn on when you go to sleep or something. The bi-level was the one I tried - tho only one..

I don't know enough about ents, just that they are the top rated center / doctor in Atlanta, and everyone speaks very highly of him, the only thing I don't like is that he is eager to do a surgery - but that could be because cpap wasn't workin for me and he wanted to help get rid of my apnea. I'm not really sure. I'll definitely look more into it but I hear too many different things from people that makes it even harder.

[trish6hundred]

Hi Dreidels,
WELCOME! to the forum.!
It sounds like your ENT doc is quite eager to do surgery that, in the end won’t work and you will more than likely have to use CPAP anyway.
Just a thought, why not skip all the problems associated with surgery and really commit to do CPAP therapy?
Much success to you and good luck on your decision.

[Dreidels]

Hi Dreidels,
WELCOME! to the forum.!
It sounds like your ENT doc is quite eager to do surgery that, in the end won’t work and you will more than likely have to use CPAP anyway.
Just a thought, why not skip all the problems associated with surgery and really commit to do CPAP therapy?
Much success to you and good luck on your decision.

I do agree with that. He seems to recommend surgery rather quick, or maybe cause I had a very strong no for cpap, but I guess in the end I'll have to give it another go. It just seems like there has to be another way, sleep apnea isn't normal, so seems like something we are doing is probably causing it, I don't know

---

Though there are some cases where surgery has cured sleep apnea and the need for a cpap wasn't needed, but there are a lot of surgeries to have to test :/

[eseedhouse]

[ It just seems like there has to be another way, sleep apnea isn't normal, so seems like something we are doing is probably causing it, I don't know

And what makes you say sleep apnea isn't "normal"? I think it is very "normal" in these days of high calorie fast food diet with the consequent weight gain.

But this question should be decided by evidence, not opinions. My opinion is no better than yours, but that's the point. There are too many "opinions" and not enough hard evidence.