Some questions about sleep apnea and what's worked for others..

[sonicboom]

I would never rush in to a surgery especially where conservative treatment (cpap) can make you feel substantially better as it has done for me. Daytime somnolence is a thing of the past for me. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one here with great results. Minor surgery is surgery on someone else. I would give the cpap a strong trial before concluding it's not going to work. Keep us posted. We are all here to help.

[Dreidels]

[ It just seems like there has to be another way, sleep apnea isn't normal, so seems like something we are doing is probably causing it, I don't know

And what makes you say sleep apnea isn't "normal"? I think it is very "normal" in these days of high calorie fast food diet with the consequent weight gain.

But this question should be decided by evidence, not opinions. My opinion is no better than yours, but that's the point. There are too many "opinions" and not enough hard evidence.

Agreed... I guess that's kinda where I was going, using that as an example, moving away from that lifestyle choice then one would think it should clear up. I meant not normal as in not normal to our bodies, yes it's normal in today's society. But part of me wonders sometimes if they just recommend treatment options like surgery to make more money while they can lol. Not to sound like a conspiracist or anything. I guess I'll look more into cpap but for now it's going untreated cause I don't plan on going back there right now

[eseedhouse]

I meant not normal as in not normal to our bodies

Well it's normal and natural for our bodies to age and to get sick and recover, get sick and recover, and so on until finally we don't recover.

I imagine someone who was very fat back in the medieval times would as likely have sleep apnea as someone of similar weight today. Of course no one would know he (or she) had it. I bet if you read enough history you can find records of people complaining about other people's loud snoring.

But part of me wonders sometimes if they just recommend treatment options like surgery to make more money while they can lol.

Well it would be natural for someone who does surgery for a living to look for a surgical solution - everything looks like nails when all you have is a hammer. But the only treatment that is known to work reliably is positive air pressure of various kinds.

[richb]

Sounds like you have an ENT. And yours sounds surgery happy.
I would change doctors and get one who knows sleep medicine.

If CPAP didn't help, then I would guess you have mixed apnea, and require a different type of machine.
The machine for treating mixed apnea is the ASV. It provides, on a breath by breath basis, a pressure pulse to inflate the lungs if you fail to initiate a breath on your own.

If you don't make a commitment to lifetime PAP, you might just wind up with cardiac issues.

Those are my opinions.

Mongo

Hi Dridels,

Listen to JustMongo. You are probably a candidate for an ASV machine. I am also on an ASV machine. I also just had Nasal Turbinate reduction and correction of a deviated septum. Those surgeries were to allow me to better use the ASV machine not to cure CSA. The ASV machine has been helpful in improving sleep quality. I sleep better with the machine than without. CSA is a complicated problem. ASV CPAP is the primary treatment but some Docs go beyond ASV as well.

RichB

[Dreidels]

I guess I never thought of it like that and I just now caught what you meant by sounds like I have an ent. I always thought ent was same as sleep specialist while realistically when I think about it makes more sense that he's not, but could specialize in both. It is an ent office. His name is Samuel A. Mickelson and it says special interest in sleep medicine and a side general ent.

I'm curious though, is central sleep apnea generally related or caused by a more serous illness or problem? Not really sure how a cpap could fix central if it's caused by the brain, isn't cpap treating the symptoms not the underlying cause? Sleep studies are expensive and seem to be the only way to find out if a cpap machine is working for you, so what are some other ways to find out? Everything sleep apnea related is rather expensive

[richb]

I guess I never thought of it like that and I just now caught what you meant by sounds like I have an ent. I always thought ent was same as sleep specialist while realistically when I think about it makes more sense that he's not, but could specialize in both. It is an ent office. His name is Samuel A. Mickelson and it says special interest in sleep medicine and a side general ent.

I'm curious though, is central sleep apnea generally related or caused by a more serous illness or problem? Not really sure how a cpap could fix central if it's caused by the brain, isn't cpap treating the symptoms not the underlying cause? Sleep studies are expensive and seem to be the only way to find out if a cpap machine is working for you, so what are some other ways to find out? Everything sleep apnea related is rather expensive

Idiopathic Central Apnea is more like a condition than the result of another disease process. It seems that if you have this condition your body (through the carotid body) fails to properly measure the level of CO2 in your blood. Your body/brain thinks you have been doing enough breathing and decides to stop until the CO2 level rises enough to stimulate breathing. The ASV machines step in to stimulate breathing during these temporary stopages in normal breathing.

Some disease circumstances such as Congestive Heart Failure and High Altitude Sickness can also trigger Central Apneas. These conditions are often treated differently than Idiopathic Central Apnea or A combination of Central and Obstructive Apnea. CPAP and BiPAP do not fix Central Apnea. It can often make it worse. It takes an ASV machine to treat Idiopathic Central Apnea. The new machines put out enough data to show if they are working or not. Unfortunately some insurance plans require a PSG (sleep study) to confirm this.

RichB

[Rob S]

I'm curious though, is central sleep apnea generally related or caused by a more serous illness or problem? Not really sure how a cpap could fix central if it's caused by the brain, isn't cpap treating the symptoms not the underlying cause? Sleep studies are expensive and seem to be the only way to find out if a cpap machine is working for you, so what are some other ways to find out? Everything sleep apnea related is rather expensive

I've read conflicting reports on the cause of CA but i'm convinced mine began with an electrical shock of 60,000 volts @ 60amps. and there seems to be at least 1 report that can support my opinion.

CPAP can not treat CA, a machine similar to CPAP called an ASV is used.

you can tell how well most modern machines are treating you with free software available at the top of this page called sleepyhead.

[Dreidels]

I'm curious though, is central sleep apnea generally related or caused by a more serous illness or problem? Not really sure how a cpap could fix central if it's caused by the brain, isn't cpap treating the symptoms not the underlying cause? Sleep studies are expensive and seem to be the only way to find out if a cpap machine is working for you, so what are some other ways to find out? Everything sleep apnea related is rather expensive

I've read conflicting reports on the cause of CA but i'm convinced mine began with an electrical shock of 60,000 volts @ 60amps. and there seems to be at least 1 report that can support my opinion.

CPAP can not treat CA, a machine similar to CPAP called an ASV is used.

you can tell how well most modern machines are treating you with free software available at the top of this page called sleepyhead.

Does an "asv" work with mixed as well?

Also curious to anyone else with central... Do you catch yourself breathing shallowly or not at all during the day?? It's very weird to suddenly think about the fact you're not breathing (sometimes not at all), and sometimes very shallow. Sometimes it even seems like it's been a while, like periodic times of holding your breath..

[Dreidels]

Also another thought.. I don't really think I have problems breathing through my nose, but I've come to realize that if I sleep breathing through my mouth (which happens occasionally when I've gone a few nights with poor sleep), and I can tell waking up with dry mouth, it seems like I sleep better. I don't know if it's because I don't stop breathing when I breath through my mouth, or what, but I had nasal turbinate reduction that seemed to have little to none impact on nasal breathin. Almost seems like central is my main area of concern... But I again have no idea, just that I routinely catch myself not breathing, then trying to force a yawn rather than starting to breath again.. It's annoying feeling like I need air. Maybe the breaths through my nose aren't deep enough or letting in enough air?

[DeepBreathing]

Does an "asv" work with mixed as well?

Yes

Also curious to anyone else with central... Do you catch yourself breathing shallowly or not at all during the day?? It's very weird to suddenly think about the fact you're not breathing (sometimes not at all), and sometimes very shallow. Sometimes it even seems like it's been a while, like periodic times of holding your breath..

I've noticed it occasionally, but I'm not sure that it's anything to do with central sleep apnea. My understanding (I'm not a medical professional) is that the "brain circuits" which control sleep breathing are not the same as those which control waking breathing. From my own experience, it's more a case of forgetting to breathe while concentrating on something else (like responding to a post on Apnea Board ).