It's been a year and I'm about ready to kick CPAP to the curb

[joeblough]

hopefully that will help some. personally i got misdirected into CBT-I when all along i had sleep apnea. however, even with the machine there are definitely nights when the mask or something wakes me up and then i can't sleep for 1-2 hours, and this absolutely kills me the next day. during the winter i slacked off on the "get out of bed" thing because it was uncomfortably cold outside of the bed, but now that it's warming up a little i think i'll start doing it again if this happens.

another thing they do in CBT-I is sleep restriction - they never drop below 5 hours per night, but they want to you go to bed later than normal and wake up to an alarm earlier than normal to see if your body will actually generate however much sleep they are targeting. if you are reliably falling asleep in 15mins and sleeping all night, and waking up with the alarm under restriction, then they slowly pull back the bedtime and push forward the wake time, in small increments (15 mins if i remember right.) this process definitely cured me of the waking up in the middle of the night problem but it was very painful as i was extremely tired and always struggled to stay awake until my assigned bedtime. and of course all that time i was suffering from apneas. perhaps i should try it again but psychologically it is tough as you end up worrying that you won't feel good for an extended period of time. i guess that's where the worry time comes in - you have to convince yourself it is for the greater good, and temporary.

if you are under restriction and sleeping "enough", then they will want you to set an alarm for a time just before you are waking up naturally. in the end their goal is to get you going to bed at the same time every night and waking up at the same time every morning, with some ideal amount of sleep inbetween. i guess if you are at their minimum of 5 hours and still not sleeping thru the night, they would refer you to sleep medicine, but we're all already there.

my psychologist thought the e-paper kindles were OK for reading at night but as you are doing she suggested using the blue filtering glasses while using it.

[Deborah K.]

I don't think insomnia is related to apnea.  Long before I had apnea I had terrible insomnia.  I think I have had it most of my life.  For a long time, I tried all the natural stuff but finally had to admit that nothing was working.  My doctor prescribed me Trazodone and I was worlds better.  Then I felt bad about having to take a drug, so I experimented with newer natural things for a year or so but realized that my sleeping was still terrible, and went back to the Trazodone.  Yay!  I have no side effects and am quite happy with it.  I wish I didn't need it, but I do, so I don't worry about it anymore.  I pray that you will find something natural or medicinal that works as well for you!

[Deborah K.]

I also noticed a couple of things in your therapy that I think could be improved.  Your starting pressure is 8.6 but your med pressure is 9.86.  I suggest that you raise your starting pressure to 10.  You'd also do well to increase your EPR to 3.

[drago7579]

hopefully that will help some. personally i got misdirected into CBT-I when all along i had sleep apnea. however, even with the machine there are definitely nights when the mask or something wakes me up and then i can't sleep for 1-2 hours, and this absolutely kills me the next day. during the winter i slacked off on the "get out of bed" thing because it was uncomfortably cold outside of the bed, but now that it's warming up a little i think i'll start doing it again if this happens.

another thing they do in CBT-I is sleep restriction - they never drop below 5 hours per night, but they want to you go to bed later than normal and wake up to an alarm earlier than normal to see if your body will actually generate however much sleep they are targeting. if you are reliably falling asleep in 15mins and sleeping all night, and waking up with the alarm under restriction, then they slowly pull back the bedtime and push forward the wake time, in small increments (15 mins if i remember right.) this process definitely cured me of the waking up in the middle of the night problem but it was very painful as i was extremely tired and always struggled to stay awake until my assigned bedtime. and of course all that time i was suffering from apneas. perhaps i should try it again but psychologically it is tough as you end up worrying that you won't feel good for an extended period of time. i guess that's where the worry time comes in - you have to convince yourself it is for the greater good, and temporary.

if you are under restriction and sleeping "enough", then they will want you to set an alarm for a time just before you are waking up naturally. in the end their goal is to get you going to bed at the same time every night and waking up at the same time every morning, with some ideal amount of sleep inbetween. i guess if you are at their minimum of 5 hours and still not sleeping thru the night, they would refer you to sleep medicine, but we're all already there.

my psychologist thought the e-paper kindles were OK for reading at night but as you are doing she suggested using the blue filtering glasses while using it.

I think the mask wakes me up sometimes to although the early morning awakenings were an issue long before CPAP

I tried sleep restriction on my own a couple months ago and that jacked up my sleep for the week.  I'd go to bed later but still wake up early and that lasted for a week or so and I had to stop.  Might try it again sometime though.  It is hard to stay away when you have a normal bedtime though.  I will often fall asleep in the recliner and end up sleeping there anytime between 30 min and 2 hours before going to bed.


Sleep restriction does make a lot of sense though.  From what I've read, it's more effective with CBT though and I did it without CBT.

[drago7579]

I don't think insomnia is related to apnea.  Long before I had apnea I had terrible insomnia.  I think I have had it most of my life.  For a long time, I tried all the natural stuff but finally had to admit that nothing was working.  My doctor prescribed me Trazodone and I was worlds better.  Then I felt bad about having to take a drug, so I experimented with newer natural things for a year or so but realized that my sleeping was still terrible, and went back to the Trazodone.  Yay!  I have no side effects and am quite happy with it.  I wish I didn't need it, but I do, so I don't worry about it anymore.  I pray that you will find something natural or medicinal that works as well for you!

My doctor prescribed me hydroxyzine HCI a couple months ago.  I've resisted it so far but will likely end up caving if there is no improvement next week.

[drago7579]

I also noticed a couple of things in your therapy that I think could be improved.  Your starting pressure is 8.6 but your med pressure is 9.86.  I suggest that you raise your starting pressure to 10.  You'd also do well to increase your EPR to 3.

Thanks for the suggestion.  I will give it a try and see how it goes.

[drago7579]

I also noticed a couple of things in your therapy that I think could be improved.  Your starting pressure is 8.6 but your med pressure is 9.86.  I suggest that you raise your starting pressure to 10.  You'd also do well to increase your EPR to 3.

Thanks again for the idea.  Seemed to feel a little better the next morning.  But then I again went back to feeling like I was hit by a car the night before when I woke up the next few mornings.

One thing I've noticed is that has been spiking more (more and for longer) and will sometimes wake up with air coming out of the mask so the seal seems to break whereas before there would be a few spikes per night but they didn't last and the mask stayed sealed.  

Maybe I should lower the EPR back to 2 but keep the starting pressure up?  I have tried EPR at different numbers (1, 2, 3, and off) in the past but can't seem to get it right.  

I typically wake up like I was hit by a car the night before, regardless of whether I use CPAP or not.

       

[Mr Pink]

Hey mate,

just read your post, not only do we have similar titles but seem to suffer from similar issues. I too feel uncomfortable in my bed at time, then there other times when I am fully sleep drunk walking to the restroom and snooze way no problem.

I hear and feel you in your struggle. I wonder whether its the matress, the pillows, the temp - whatever. But then again, any "normal" person can compensate for a sh**ty pillow or a nt so good mattress with no sleep issues at all. So its my sleep. 

My bloodwork came out perfectly fine but I sure as heck weigh too much and need to drop the beer consumption. This is what I can do so thats what I will try. 

I wish you many good hrs. of sleep to come dude, but you arent alone in your suffering. 

Mr. Pink

[drago7579]

Hey mate,

just read your post, not only do we have similar titles but seem to suffer from similar issues. I too feel uncomfortable in my bed at time, then there other times when I am fully sleep drunk walking to the restroom and snooze way no problem.

I hear and feel you in your struggle. I wonder whether its the matress, the pillows, the temp - whatever. But then again, any "normal" person can compensate for a sh**ty pillow or a nt so good mattress with no sleep issues at all. So its my sleep. 

My bloodwork came out perfectly fine but I sure as heck weigh too much and need to drop the beer consumption. This is what I can do so thats what I will try. 

I wish you many good hrs. of sleep to come dude, but you arent alone in your suffering. 

Mr. Pink

I would love to tell you that dropping weight will definitely help, but I dropped about 30 pounds over the past 18 months and am still having the same issues.  

I do find that alcohol tends to affect sleep but I rarely drink so it's far from the primary reason for my issue.

As for the mattress or pillows, it took me time to get that right.

The frustrating thing is not being able to find any kind of a pattern.  I do have triggers that I know affect my sleep (room that is not dark, room temp, sinus congestion, too much screen time at night without the blueblocker glasses, etc), but once I have those bases covered, I'll still have trouble sleeping more often than I'd like.  It all seems to be random.  I've tracked my sleep, recorded, what I ate, etc.  Tried magnesium several times a week.  Nothing.

Maybe CPAP has some responsibility in waking me up at times as I can't seem to keep it on for more than 3-4 hours a night, but the early morning awakening were happening long before CPAP and I had my hopes up that CPAP would be the cure.

BTW thanks for the kind words.

[Deborah K.]

I think you are better off keeping the EPR set at 3.